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[Neonivek]

Goodness, that friend... Is really judgmental and not good for you.

No. That friend legitimately cares about me enough to want me to improve and will stop at nothing to help me do so. I do the same for him and the other friend I have like this. We are inseparable buddies.

People today seem so unwilling to take or give blunt, constructive criticism that it's difficult to find people who will both take a bullet for you and slap a gun out of your hand. I'm glad to have friends that aren't just hugboxes that reaffirm all my poor opinions about the world.

You would think so. But that friend is going to point out your every flaw, constantly, non-stop... until you conform to their image of what is "normal".

That wiseman's definition of a good friend, is also the definition of a caustic friend.

The "Friend" was already someone who was honest with you. The "Good friend" was someone who constantly points out your flaws.

[kisame12794]

HS event RAEG.

I hated my high school. It was a catholic school, so religeon was a big deal. Big enough that they had a mandatory religeon course FOR EACH YEAR, PLUS mandatory Mass at the local church. Skipping mass was punishable by suspension. Plus most of the religeon teachers were of the Holier-than-thou type, except for one dude who knew a member of the mafia. He was pretty awesome. Such utter bullshit.[/rant] Note, I have nothing about religeon, but like a quote whose authors name I forget, "Religeon is like a boner. It's fine to have one, just don't shove it in my face." I'm pretty sure it went like that.

Edit:x8 ninjaaaaaaaaaas.

Edit x2:FUCK AGAIN.

Edit x3: AHDHHSIABSHDGBSINDJSH NINNJAAAAAS.

Edit x4: FUCKING HELL GUYS LEMME FUKKEN POST DAMMIT.

[Furtuka]

Goodness, that friend... Is really judgmental and not good for you.

No. That friend legitimately cares about me enough to want me to improve and will stop at nothing to help me do so. I do the same for him and the other friend I have like this. We are inseparable buddies.

People today seem so unwilling to take or give blunt, constructive criticism that it's difficult to find people who will both take a bullet for you and slap a gun out of your hand. I'm glad to have friends that aren't just hugboxes that reaffirm all my poor opinions about the world.

My experiences don't really go in that direction. My friends and I are good most of the time. But in the cases where we badly disagree it doesn't end in anyone getting better because our upbringings and values are different enough that we can't understand each others justifications for our actions.

[Xantalos]

"A friend is someone who will occasionally say you look like shit. A good friend is someone who will say you look like shit until you stop looking like shit."

-a wise man

Damn straight.

Okay.

Hey guys, making sexual assault jokes doesn't make girls like you any better.  It helps put you on their list of people not to date.  Yes, we have those lists, and yes, we share them around.  It doesn't matter how hot, rich, smart, or anything else you are, that list means you're vetoed until such a time when you've demonstrated a sincere display of changed character.

So yeah, you look like shit.  Maybe you want to do something about it.

Huh. I didn't know there was such a list. That'll be useful in future social interactions, though I really doubt I'll ever be on that list for that specific reason. Thanks.

[Projeck37]

I'd be willing to slap a gun out of someones hand. Which I've had to do more than once, sadly.. and to take a bullet? Depends on the person. Though I wouldn't fucking beat up my friends because they need to get better.

It's a metaphor.

I realized that, but still.

[Gamerlord]

Goodness, that friend... Is really judgmental and not good for you.

No. That friend legitimately cares about me enough to want me to improve and will stop at nothing to help me do so. I do the same for him and the other friend I have like this. We are inseparable buddies.

People today seem so unwilling to take or give blunt, constructive criticism that it's difficult to find people who will both take a bullet for you and slap a gun out of your hand. I'm glad to have friends that aren't just hugboxes that reaffirm all my poor opinions about the world.

You would think so. But that friend is going to point out your every flaw, constantly, non-stop... until you conform to their image of what is "normal".

That wiseman's definition of a good friend, is also the definition of a caustic friend.

You're taking it too far. Your idea of a good friend wouldn't tell a friend with anorexia that she needs to eat NAOW and that her quest for physical attractiveness/satisfaction is making her unattractive. I sure as hell would and have done so in the past.

[freeformschooler]

You would think so. But that friend is going to point out your every flaw, constantly, non-stop... until you conform to their image of what is "normal".

That wiseman's definition of a good friend, is also the definition of a caustic friend.

Nope. It has nothing to do with normalcy. It has more to do with not ruining my life. My friend would not tell me to stop wearing a shirt of the wrong color or stop being an introvert. He would tell me to stop making sexual assault jokes.

My experiences don't really go in that direction. My friends and I are good most of the time. But in the cases where we badly disagree it doesn't end in anyone getting better because our upbringings and values are different enough that we can't understand each others justifications for our actions.

Yes, basically this.

EDIT: Wait, not basically this! We do occasionally get better for it.

[Vector]

Who are you talking to? Might want to give some indication.

I'm trying to say that I'm not here to control the conversation or something because I'm ~offended~ and can't handle my emotions, I'm telling you that you're sticking your feet in your mouth.  I'd certainly hope that you'd flat-out stop, same as if someone told you your fly was down.

Huh. I didn't know there was such a list. That'll be useful in future social interactions, though I really doubt I'll ever be on that list for that specific reason. Thanks.

Yeah, "this guy is dangerous" is usually the main reason someone gets on the list.  In my case I keep four: "Good to date," "dunno," "proceed with extreme caution," and "warn others at any appropriate opportunity."  People enter on the "dunno" list.  In practice, I don't date people who aren't on the "good to date" list anymore, since I've had way too many bad experiences with the "proceed with extreme caution" guys.

[Neonivek]

Your taking it too far. Your idea of a good friend wouldn't tell a friend with anorexia that she needs to eat NAOW and that her quest for physical attractiveness/satisfaction is making her unattractive. I sure as hell would and have done so in the past.

Not too far, to its logical conclusion brought up within the confines of the metaphor. Someone with Anorexia doesn't constantly need to be told she has a problem.

Guess what? I already made a topic about the "Good friend who will tell you, you look terrible until you don't look terrible anymore" and guess what? That person is the antagonist.

In fact I made several topics about that EXACT person.

Nope. It has nothing to do with normalcy. It has more to do with not ruining my life. My friend would not tell me to stop wearing a shirt of the wrong color or stop being an introvert. He would tell me to stop making sexual assault jokes.

But not constantly.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=131260.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109101.msg3266389#msg3266389

That is the Good friend you are talking about

[freeformschooler]

Nope. It has nothing to do with normalcy. It has more to do with not ruining my life. My friend would not tell me to stop wearing a shirt of the wrong color or stop being an introvert. He would tell me to stop making sexual assault jokes.

But not constantly.

Of course not constantly. Hyperbole, man. Just because you can take something to its logical extreme doesn't mean that's actually how it works. More often than not, it doesn't.

Also, your "good friend" looks like shit. He is not the kind of good friend I am talking about.

[Gamerlord]

Who are you talking to? Might want to give some indication.

I'm trying to say that I'm not here to control the conversation or something because I'm ~offended~ and can't handle my emotions, I'm telling you that you're sticking your feet in your mouth.  I'd certainly hope that you'd flat-out stop, same as if someone told you your fly was down.

Um. I wasn't making any sort of joke or anything. I was just objecting to something others said.

Huh. I didn't know there was such a list. That'll be useful in future social interactions, though I really doubt I'll ever be on that list for that specific reason. Thanks.

Yeah, "this guy is dangerous" is usually the main reason someone gets on the list.  In my case I keep four: "Good to date," "dunno," "proceed with extreme caution," and "warn others at any appropriate opportunity."  People enter on the "dunno" list.  In practice, I don't date people who aren't on the "good to date" list anymore, since I've had way too many bad experiences with the "proceed with extreme caution" guys.

There aren't any guys worthy of a 'Alright' category?

Your taking it too far. Your idea of a good friend wouldn't tell a friend with anorexia that she needs to eat NAOW and that her quest for physical attractiveness/satisfaction is making her unattractive. I sure as hell would and have done so in the past.

Not too far, to its logical conclusion brought up within the confines of the metaphor. Someone with Anorexia doesn't constantly need to be told she has a problem.

Guess what? I already made a topic about the "Good friend who will tell you, you look terrible until you don't look terrible anymore" and guess what? That person is the antagonist.

In fact I made several topics about that EXACT person.

Repeating yourself doesn't make you right. And actually, in my experience people with anorexia DO need constant reinforcement/reminders.

[Neonivek]

Nope. It has nothing to do with normalcy. It has more to do with not ruining my life. My friend would not tell me to stop wearing a shirt of the wrong color or stop being an introvert. He would tell me to stop making sexual assault jokes.

But not constantly.

Of course not constantly. Hyperbole, man. Just because you can take something to its logical extreme doesn't mean that's actually how it works. More often than not, it doesn't.

The Metaphor is the logical extreme. I haven't bent ANY of its meanings.

As well, the definition doesn't always apply to real friendship.

Sometimes the good friend is the only one who doesn't point out how you dress. It makes the metaphor sound like it was made in the 1950s where you had to conform to very strict social norms or else people would shun you.

[Xantalos]

Huh. I didn't know there was such a list. That'll be useful in future social interactions, though I really doubt I'll ever be on that list for that specific reason. Thanks.

Yeah, "this guy is dangerous" is usually the main reason someone gets on the list.  In my case I keep four: "Good to date," "dunno," "proceed with extreme caution," and "warn others at any appropriate opportunity."  People enter on the "dunno" list.  In practice, I don't date people who aren't on the "good to date" list anymore, since I've had way too many bad experiences with the "proceed with extreme caution" guys.

I can understand that. Now then, I need to evaluate behavior records of my schoolmates. Farewell.

[freeformschooler]

Neonivek, here is the problem:

Your experience with a person having qualities similar to my metaphor has been bad. Therefore you assume a friend like the type I have will be bad and constantly agonize me or something.
My experience with multiple people like that - on top of Gamerlord's - has been good. Yes, occasionally we go too far. Then we're fine a day later and go back to playing video games and laughing because we're good friends.

No, that's not the only type of good friend. Good is subjective. I have people who also agree with me all the time, maybe unnecessarily, and that's fine - it's just something they do. I choose to hang out with people I feel I can grow from rather than being constantly antagonized or pampered.

That is the misunderstanding here.

[Scelly9]

Someone with Anorexia doesn't constantly need to be told they have a problem.

Actually, if someone has advanced anorexia, to the point where it might be life threatening, that is exactly what they need.