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[Sirus]

Try to get the Legends remake. Better in almost every fashion IIRC; way more sidequests and side-content, plus better random encounter rates. You only lose out on one minigame which the Dreamcast version had.

[Bdthemag]

Vector, although I agree that it's great to implement serious romance plot and LGBT characters, Bioware and EA aren't really doing it for all of the right reasons. See, Bioware and EA are essentially just trying to pander to this community along with using it as an excuse why people don't like their games. Mass Effect 3 came out, and people were pissed off about its quality and especially its ending. They pretty much just went, "Oh yeah, all of this dissent and controversy? It's about the LGBT relations in the video game, THAT'S what they hate." They did the exact same thing regarding TOR, stating that people were just angry at their pro-LGBT stance in the video game industry. They're just trying to make themselves look like the good guys, without actually putting any real effort into actual LGBT development in video games.

Bioware shoehorns in a lot of gay romance plots/romance plots in general just for the excuse of having them, which is definitely not how you should do it. Romance plots should be completely optional and LGBT characters should be written with some kind of tact. The entire point of a character shouldn't be "Oh, he's the gay character. That's his role in the story." but rather it should be an aspect of a character that adds on to make him less of a two dimensional character. The best way to write an LGBT character, is to make that aspect of them largely unnoticeable unless brought up by the character/other characters/as a plot element.

I understand that a lot of people want to praise Bioware for being some of the first people to add in that kind of content, but if they keep going about it the same way they've been doing it for the Mass Effect series and Dragon Age 2, it's going to go horribly. They're literally just trying to pander to the LGBT to get extra cash/have an excuse as to why people dislike their games. Keep in mind when you buy a game to support the certain inclusion of features you enjoy, you're also supporting the features you don't enjoy.

[Pnx]

Do you know, personally if someone does a good thing for bad reasons, I'll still take it.

I mean at the end of the day it's still sort of a victory for a particular part of my own personal philosophy if doing nice things actually turns out to be ultimately beneficial to yourself.

[Bdthemag]

If you encourage mediocrity, you're only giving the developers a better excuse to not improve the quality of their own medium. If you don't encourage or demand high quality, then they're just going to get lazy and try to put less and less effort into something with every game that comes out.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

A lack of genuine intent for one's good acts ensures that the larger context of good acts will ultimately be degenerated by their actions. There is no better way to damn a cause than to come to its defense in a bad way.

[Willfor]

I understand that a lot of people want to praise Bioware for being some of the first people to add in that kind of content, but if they keep going about it the same way they've been doing it for the Mass Effect series and Dragon Age 2, it's going to go horribly. They're literally just trying to pander to the LGBT to get extra cash/have an excuse as to why people dislike their games. Keep in mind when you buy a game to support the certain inclusion of features you enjoy, you're also supporting the features you don't enjoy.

I'm sorry, but you can rage at DA2 for a variety of gameplay reasons, but the LGBT community will not have your back at all if you dis how well it covered romances. David Gaider has some extremely progressive hiring practices for someone in the industry, and actually does this shit well. Not everyone in the communities, sure, but I hear way more "look what these people did right about this issue" than "this is a horrible representation." Please stop using it as a poor example in this regard. There are far easier targets that you will not be taken to bat for.

[Bdthemag]

I understand that a lot of people want to praise Bioware for being some of the first people to add in that kind of content, but if they keep going about it the same way they've been doing it for the Mass Effect series and Dragon Age 2, it's going to go horribly. They're literally just trying to pander to the LGBT to get extra cash/have an excuse as to why people dislike their games. Keep in mind when you buy a game to support the certain inclusion of features you enjoy, you're also supporting the features you don't enjoy.

I'm sorry, but you can rage at DA2 for a variety of gameplay reasons, but the LGBT community will not have your back at all if you dis how well it covered romances. David Gaider has some extremely progressive hiring practices for someone in the industry, and actually does this shit well. Not everyone in the communities, sure, but I hear way more "look what these people did right about this issue" than "this is a horrible representation." Please stop using it as a poor example in this regard. There are far easier targets that you will not be taken to bat for.

David Gaider's hiring practices can be basically boiled down to "hiring people who have mediocre writing skills over people with good writing skills because they're LGBT." DA2 did not have good romance options, period. Just because the writing is progressive or LGBT friendly doesn't excuse it for being terribly written.

[Pnx]

You know... there's a lot of times in games the way I see romance done, especially when it's done as an optional thing the player can do, I find myself wondering "Is this really how people's romances go?"

A lot of the time it sort of feels... stale.

And that's all romances, not just LGBT ones, and not just in bioware games.

[Bdthemag]

It honestly does, either the romance is thrown in needlessly for the hell of it or the romance is so focused on and shoved down your throat you don't give a fuck. I think the biggest problem is that writers are projecting their "ideal romance" onto a large group of people when many different people have different ideal romances. That's why I disliked the romance in DA2 (And most games in general), because it feels meaningless and feels like I'm reading fan-fiction since every character falls in love with you after a few conversations.

[Knight of Fools]

Bioware's helped me get as close to sex as I've ever been in my life.

I'm not sure how I feel about that.

[Willfor]

David Gaider's hiring practices can be basically boiled down to "hiring people who have mediocre writing skills over people with good writing skills because they're LGBT." DA2 did not have good romance options, period. Just because the writing is progressive or LGBT friendly doesn't excuse it for being terribly written.

Did ... we even play the same game? O_o

[Bdthemag]

David Gaider's hiring practices can be basically boiled down to "hiring people who have mediocre writing skills over people with good writing skills because they're LGBT." DA2 did not have good romance options, period. Just because the writing is progressive or LGBT friendly doesn't excuse it for being terribly written.

Did ... we even play the same game? O_o

Yes, we just obviously have varying opinions and tastes.

[Pnx]

I can think of a few occasions where a romance plot was done well. But it was pretty much something that was built up to over the course of the game.

[Loud Whispers]

Do you know, personally if someone does a good thing for bad reasons, I'll still take it.

I mean at the end of the day it's still sort of a victory for a particular part of my own personal philosophy if doing nice things actually turns out to be ultimately beneficial to yourself.

RPGs often when they do include it, have sex involved somewhere relatively out of sight to show a sign of love and bonding, character development progressing from the next level of expressed chemistry. Romance and things along those lines. If you can't find a way to tactfully put Romance in, just leave it out. Not having it is a whole deal better than just going with something as meaningful as having sex and calling it a day, there's a difference between making love and shagging. Bioware are not only one of the few companies to make games that include gay sex, they're one of the few companies to include sex into their games at all. And they haven't really done a good job of it. And when you've done a poor job of things, well, Al Gore didn't do any wonders for climate change.

[Pnx]

I'll still take bad gay romance, over overtly pretending homosexual romance doesn't exist. It's a step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned.