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[Scelly9]

tor is dead yo

another day, another confirmation that the us has actually declared war on freedom

Um what.

[LordSlowpoke]

tor is dead yo

another day, another confirmation that the us has actually declared war on freedom

Um what.

you know marquez? the biggest child porn dealer, according to the fbi? ran a fair deal of services like tormail and hosting on the tor network, overall made the place a bit more organized and better

the fact that he's arrested means that they're not satisfied with fishing the end nodes, and the script that i can only assume they threw in puts your anonymity on there in more danger than usually

[Scelly9]

tor is dead yo

another day, another confirmation that the us has actually declared war on freedom

Um what.

you know marquez? the biggest child porn dealer, according to the fbi? ran a fair deal of services like tormail and hosting on the tor network, overall made the place a bit more organized and better

the fact that he's arrested means that they're not satisfied with fishing the end nodes, and the script that i can only assume they threw in puts your anonymity on there in more danger than usually

And/or he was acutally distributing child porn, which I find pretty likely, considering that's most of TOR's use.

[LordSlowpoke]

tor is dead yo

another day, another confirmation that the us has actually declared war on freedom

Um what.

you know marquez? the biggest child porn dealer, according to the fbi? ran a fair deal of services like tormail and hosting on the tor network, overall made the place a bit more organized and better

the fact that he's arrested means that they're not satisfied with fishing the end nodes, and the script that i can only assume they threw in puts your anonymity on there in more danger than usually

And/or he was acutally distributing child porn, which I find pretty likely, considering that's most of TOR's use.

yes, this will certainly show these pesky pedophiles their place. gotta catch 'em all like the old motto goes. am i the only one in the goddamn world who's not a pedophile but doesn't have anything actually against them but that's not the point here, the point is i have no use in raising this case even though i'd like to

[MonkeyHead]

tor is dead yo

another day, another confirmation that the us has actually declared war on freedom

Um what.

you know marquez? the biggest child porn dealer, according to the fbi? ran a fair deal of services like tormail and hosting on the tor network, overall made the place a bit more organized and better

the fact that he's arrested means that they're not satisfied with fishing the end nodes, and the script that i can only assume they threw in puts your anonymity on there in more danger than usually

And/or he was acutally distributing child porn, which I find pretty likely, considering that's most of TOR's use.

yes, this will certainly show these pesky pedophiles their place. gotta catch 'em all like the old motto goes. ["color=transparent]am i the only one in the goddamn world who's not a pedophile but doesn't have anything actually against them but that's not the point here, the point is i have no use in raising this case even though i'd like to[/color"]"

WTF? You dont have anything against the abuse of kids? Did I just read that correctly?

[LordSlowpoke]

tor is dead yo

another day, another confirmation that the us has actually declared war on freedom

Um what.

you know marquez? the biggest child porn dealer, according to the fbi? ran a fair deal of services like tormail and hosting on the tor network, overall made the place a bit more organized and better

the fact that he's arrested means that they're not satisfied with fishing the end nodes, and the script that i can only assume they threw in puts your anonymity on there in more danger than usually

And/or he was acutally distributing child porn, which I find pretty likely, considering that's most of TOR's use.

yes, this will certainly show these pesky pedophiles their place. gotta catch 'em all like the old motto goes. ["color=transparent]am i the only one in the goddamn world who's not a pedophile but doesn't have anything actually against them but that's not the point here, the point is i have no use in raising this case even though i'd like to[/color"]"

WTF? You dont have anything against the abuse of kids? Did I just read that correctly?

sure thing bub

now, let's take into consideration that while the statistical rate of abusing children is higher within a select group of pedophiles than within a group of non-pedophiles, the same was claimed of homosexuals a while back! what a surprise. (i would spin this differently if anyone actually did a scientific study on the rates of sexually motivated child abuse by select groups of people.)

i don't exactly know you well enough to put appropriate words in your mouth as an eye-for-eye measure but you can do that yourself okay?

[MonkeyHead]

Statistically, paedophiles abusing children is more probable than other individuals? Yea, thats hardly suprising is it.

Sorry, nothing is going to make a good case against law enforcement agencies prosecuting those who either abuse or enable the abuse of children. If this guy was using TOR for that purpose (which seems to me to be the case), then maybe a loss of some internet anonimity to reduce the production and circulation of child porn is a good thing.

I really dont get what you are getting at here at all.

[Slayerhero90]

LSP, you're creeping me out.

[LordSlowpoke]

* LordSlowpoke sighs

alright let's break it down here.

first of all where do you see me making a case against enforcing anti-child pornography laws, it's that the entire case was bollocks and based on the public opinion that the tor network is full of pedophiles (which is somewhat grounded in reality) since pre-takedown the hosting marquez ran was remarkably clean - to my limited knowledge, at least, but i doubt your knowledge is better than mine in this instance.

secondly you'd think that in a time where the term "internet surveillance" (the second thereof i still need to use a spellchecker for sometime, and nobody is ever going to explain to me why) is repeated every day all over the place people would scoff at such baseless accusations, it's like the strauss-kahn case again: some guy might have been into some shady shit but gets accused of even shadier shit and has his life ruined due to said accusations

apparently as clear as i'm trying to make it, i'm only digging myself in deeper so i'll be leaving now thanks

[Frumple]

Sorry, nothing is going to make a good case against law enforcement agencies prosecuting those who either abuse or enable the abuse of children.

Yup. "Think of the children" has pretty consistently been a major rallying call for people trying to (and occasionally succeeding) utterly fuck over any right to privacy anyone once had, as well as wedge one for prying open legal protections against censorship. Even (sometimes especially) when the shit they're trying to pull would have absolutely zero effect on the rate of child predation.

Gets hard t'try to keep the laws from going dystopian when the ones pushing 'em that way have a way to turn off most of the population's brains with a single sentence

[ChairmanPoo]

You know,most uses for TOR  are *not*  in fact child pornography. Back when I was at the dorm I used it to jump over the very restrictive firewall they had (eg: it censored the Amnesty international webpage because of "war content". And don't get me started on what did it think of Deus Ex: human revolution -hint: it thought the spaces were arranged differently). And more recently, when I was making my first couple of moves against the bullshit in my workplace, I used it to register email accounts and contact trade unions and people knowledgeable about labor law through them without risk of being compromised (granted, this was largely overkill by my part, but still, the point remains). It kind of concerns me to spread a black legend about tor in this regard, because it's both untrue and harmful to legitimate users.

TL, DR, when you say "only pedophiles/terrorists/scientologists/drug dealers use tor" you're stigmatizing and targetting legitimate users.

[MonkeyHead]

You know, there *are*uses for TOR that are *not* child pornography. Back when I was at the dorm I used it to jump over the very restrictive firewall they had. And more recently, when I was making my first couple of moves against the bullshit in my workplace, I used it to register email accounts and contact trade unions and people knowledgeable about labor law through them without risk of being compromised (granted, this was largely overkill by my part, but still, the point remains).

Yes, but none of that is illegal. If someone were to choose to use TOR to do illegal things, then got caught, then they or thier supporters dont really have much of a leg to stand on if they then use the "internet freedom" argument.

[Sirus]

Sorry, nothing is going to make a good case against law enforcement agencies prosecuting those who either abuse or enable the abuse of children.

Yup. "Think of the children" has pretty consistently been a major rallying call for people trying to (and occasionally succeeding) utterly fuck over any right to privacy anyone once had, as well as wedge one for prying open legal protections against censorship. Even (sometimes especially) when the shit they're trying to pull would have absolutely zero effect on the rate of child predation.

Gets hard t'try to keep the laws from going dystopian when the ones pushing 'em that way have a way to turn off most of the population's brains with a single sentence

Hold the phone, Frumple. The phrase "Think of the children" has historically been used to mean "we can't let our children be exposed to X because of Y". In this case, "think of the children" means "Let's stop enabling the sexual abuse of children". Entirely different things and I'm all for the second one.

[ChairmanPoo]

No, but compromising TOR because some pedophile/drug dealer/terrorist/whatever is using the network is a mistake. Their website is pretty eloquent in this regard

https://www.torproject.org/docs/faq-abuse.html.en

Doesn't Tor enable criminals to do bad things?
Criminals can already do bad things. Since they're willing to break laws, they already have lots of options available that provide better privacy than Tor provides. They can steal cell phones, use them, and throw them in a ditch; they can crack into computers in Korea or Brazil and use them to launch abusive activities; they can use spyware, viruses, and other techniques to take control of literally millions of Windows machines around the world.

Tor aims to provide protection for ordinary people who want to follow the law. Only criminals have privacy right now, and we need to fix that.

Some advocates of anonymity explain that it's just a tradeoff — accepting the bad uses for the good ones — but there's more to it than that. Criminals and other bad people have the motivation to learn how to get good anonymity, and many have the motivation to pay well to achieve it. Being able to steal and reuse the identities of innocent victims (identity theft) makes it even easier. Normal people, on the other hand, don't have the time or money to spend figuring out how to get privacy online. This is the worst of all possible worlds.

So yes, criminals could in theory use Tor, but they already have better options, and it seems unlikely that taking Tor away from the world will stop them from doing their bad things. At the same time, Tor and other privacy measures can fight identity theft, physical crimes like stalking, and so on.
(...)
Our refusal to build backdoors and censorship into Tor is not because of a lack of concern. We refuse to weaken Tor because it would harm efforts to combat child abuse and human trafficking in the physical world, while removing safe spaces for victims online. Meanwhile, criminals would still have access to botnets, stolen phones, hacked hosting accounts, the postal system, couriers, corrupt officials, and whatever technology emerges to trade content. They are early adopters of technology. In the face of this, it is dangerous for policymakers to assume that blocking and filtering is sufficient. We are more interested in helping efforts to halt and prevent child abuse than helping politicians score points with constituents by hiding it. The role of corruption is especially troubling; see this United Nations report on The Role of Corruption in Trafficking in Persons.

[Scelly9]

But the entire TOR network is not compromised just because of the arrest of one person.