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[Dutchling]

Wow. I never would have thought of that.

[Greiger]

I'm not intending to speak out against Christians or any religion for that matter.  I grew up in a christian household and I have respect for most of the beliefs even if I don't believe many of them myself.  They simply have a different view.  And no, I'm not Atheist.  Closest would probably be Unitarian Universalist, I identified as one for awhile, but maybe closer to Agnostic.  I doubt any religions humanity knows are the 'true' religion.

I really meant to more speak out against those extremists like those parents.  Just like Muslum extremists that make their entire religion look bad, there are Christian extremists, like these parents.  Who cause death with their beliefs.

[Ultimuh]

Oh we are talkinga bout Excorcisms?
Well.. I never heard any of my parents approve of child exorcisms, or any form of exorcisms at all.

[AlmightyOne]

There was one recently, However the worst one was this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anneliese_Michel
She is the one whom the character of Emily Rose is based on.
It's really horrible and sad.

[Neonivek]

Over here it's kind of weird. Religion is a "sure, let's do it once in a while" thing for most, but if you actually believe in something and practice it (Christianity comes to mind, mostly.) you're... not exactly laughed at, but your views are questioned more than rampant racism at most occasions. I didn't happen to fall victim to these practices but I'm not exactly religious either. Let them do their thing, et al.

This so much. It doesn't help that being religious in any form of media has turned into a absolutely terrible trait for someone to have and is becoming like this more and more.

It suggests to me a growing unconscious hostility towards religion as a whole, either that or a growing number of people feeling disenfranchised from their religion (or possibly disillusionment as people discover that people who run religions are people).

Though really what sums up this unconscious hostility is the commonly shared belief that all war and hostility is directly caused by religion.

Not geopolitical struggles that use religion as the context for it, just religion. Which I'd get into a debate here, but I know there are a lot of people here who also believe that religion is the direct cause of most (if not all) war.

Why is it frustrating? because it carries with it the secret premise that anyone who carries a religion is continuing war and strife in the world and that everyone should drop it.

---

Mind you on thing I kind of wanted to do is do a compare and contrast of the commonly pictured versions of the Crusades and how the Crusades actually happened.

Since the version people picture upgrades the Church to some sort of mastermind super villain. When in reality yeah they played a major part, but they were hardly the puppeteer.

Mind you what sort of makes this a bad idea... is while the commonly pictured version is absurd, what actually happened isn't far contrasted. Sure the forced conversions (Convert or die) and razing of the towns wasn't a religious practice, it was just retooled into being one for the war, it still happened.

So that is why I never actually did it. Since it is less "Actually" and would just be a list of "To be more precise".

[Nadaka]

Even I wouldn't say "religion" causes all wars. A lot of them certainly. but all?. Faith perhaps, but faith isn't reserved exclusively for supernatural beliefs.

[Neonivek]

Even I wouldn't say "religion" causes all wars. A lot of them certainly. but all?. Faith perhaps, but faith isn't reserved exclusively for supernatural beliefs.

Honestly the reason I don't think that viewpoint is correct is because I feel it fails to understand the position religion takes in the lives of others and turns religion into almost a living entity in it of itself with an influence of its own.

Religion is more often the source of justification for what were more important causes.

In the same way I don't consider Religion the cause of the KKK, I consider Racism to be and religion to be the excuse/context they use for that racism.

[AlmightyOne]

Well it's true what you all said about war. The causes are mainly political but sometimes also due to religion. But let's not forget that sometimes it also breeds ignorance especially in these times and what is wanted is the will to find out not the will to believe. This is the main cause of the prevalence of pseudosciences and ignorance in our society.

[Neonivek]

This is the main cause of the prevalence of pseudosciences and ignorance in our society

Religion?

All the pseudosciences today that I am aware of are not religious based or even with religious overtones.

One is, what was the word? Whatever Human Husbandry. They are a way to justify power relationships that existed historically but aren't based around actual science but assumptions based around either outright racism, or baseless historical context ("They were defeated and turned into slaves. CLEARLY they are an inferior race").

And another was based upon the prejudices between the poor and the rich where a professor of the wrong science made a paper about how poorer students steal more or something along those lines.

Ohh and I cannot forget the Pseudoscience behind Shaken Baby Syndrome (Once again... Yes it isn't real but don't shake your baby! You can injure your baby that way. It just doesn't cause Shaken Baby Syndrome) where it was just a professor making a unsupported hypothesis.

I vaguely heard of others that are religious based, but none I can think of ever got credit outside of extremely small circles.

No wait, I can think of a few! Deprogramming for gays and lesbians I believe was one (Mind you, how much of it was a "religious belief" back then can be debated). That could be one, though I never looked further.

[AlmightyOne]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not directly blaming religion . I'm just saying(from observing society from where I come from) that what is needed now is to encourage people to analyse everything rationally and make sure everything is verified on scientific basis. MOST religious people frown upon that. What is needed is all major religious movements should at least encourage people to be less ignorant and think more rationally. 

[MaximumZero]

Coming from an atheist point of view, it's ludicrous that religion be the cause of all wars. Some? Sure. A vast majority? No. A lot of the problem of war stems from the fact that some people are just dicks to each other. The religious component of that is that religion in general is not helping or actively making things worse. Religion is an enabler. It lets, helps, and allows people to cling to outdated models of social belief, like patriarchy, racism, and homophobia. What you have is people who would have been vitriolic and antagonistic toward one another anyway saying, "I'm in the right here. My book says so!" There aren't any religious leaders worldwide advocating for the end of extremism in their own branches of religion. If there are, they aren't loud enough that the mainstream can hear them, and half-hearted weak attempts isn't going to cut it with these people.

Sometimes religious people say that religion helps them do good things. Honestly, I believe that they would have done those good things anyway.

[Neonivek]

I'm just saying(from observing society from where I come from) that what is needed now is to encourage people to analyse everything rationally and make sure everything is verified on scientific basis. MOST religious people frown upon that

I can officially say that is not true. While I cannot speak for all religions and religious people... The thing that I was always taught was that reason and faith were not contradictory and that faith without reason is blind faith.

What every religious person has told me was that to be a truly faithful person you can to also be rational, reasonable, and logical.

Maybe I am wrong and a several miles away from where I live there are people who are told the exact opposite... but I still like to have some faith in humanity. Even if that faith is fleeting at times.

Yet I know that if people with faith are ignorant closed minded people then people without faith are just as ignorant and closed minded with different views.

If the majority of religious people are "Irrational" then the majority of people who are not religious are "irrational". It really is as simple as that. There are no differences except one is taught a more secular dogma (Which being in university really highlights. The amount of people who "know" something, but don't know why or any of the nuance is rather high.)

For example... Everyone in my class knows that "multiculturalism is good" but about two or three students actually can give reasons why.

[Nadaka]

Even I wouldn't say "religion" causes all wars. A lot of them certainly. but all?. Faith perhaps, but faith isn't reserved exclusively for supernatural beliefs.

Honestly the reason I don't think that viewpoint is correct is because I feel it fails to understand the position religion takes in the lives of others and turns religion into almost a living entity in it of itself with an influence of its own.

Religion is more often the source of justification for what were more important causes.

In the same way I don't consider Religion the cause of the KKK, I consider Racism to be and religion to be the excuse/context they use for that racism.

A virus is not alive by itself, it is merely a bundle of genetic information wrapped in a shell of protein. Yet give it access to the cellular machinery of an appropriate host, and it displays all the qualities of a living thing. It consumes energy, alters its environment(host), competes with other infections, evolves to overcome its natural predators in the form of antibodies and white blood cells, reproduces to spread through its environment and from host to host. Even if it harms or kills a host, it can still spread through the larger population. And while a typical virus is something a population can withstand, it just takes one wrong mutation to bring a population to its knees.

A religion is not alive by itself, it is merely a bundle of memetic information wrapped in a shell of ritual. Yet give it access to the mental machinery of an appropriate host, and it displays all the qualities of a living thing. It consumes energy, alters its environment(host), competes with other religions, evolves to overcome its natural predators in the form of logic and reason, reproduces to spread through its environment and from host to host. Even if it harms or kills a host, it can still spread through the larger population. And while a typical religion is something a population can withstand, it just takes one wrong mutation to bring a population to its knees.

Religions are effectively memetic viruses, parasites of the human mind.

[AlmightyOne]

A virus is not alive by itself, it is merely a bundle of genetic information wrapped in a shell of protein. Yet give it access to the cellular machinery of an appropriate host, and it displays all the qualities of a living thing. It consumes energy, alters its environment(host), competes with other infections, evolves to overcome its natural predators in the form of antibodies and white blood cells, reproduces to spread through its environment and from host to host. Even if it harms or kills a host, it can still spread through the larger population. And while a typical virus is something a population can withstand, it just takes one wrong mutation to bring a population to its knees.

A religion is not alive by itself, it is merely a bundle of memetic information wrapped in a shell of ritual. Yet give it access to the mental machinery of an appropriate host, and it displays all the qualities of a living thing. It consumes energy, alters its environment(host), competes with other religions, evolves to overcome its natural predators in the form of logic and reason, reproduces to spread through its environment and from host to host. Even if it harms or kills a host, it can still spread through the larger population. And while a typical religion is something a population can withstand, it just takes one wrong mutation to bring a population to its knees.

Religions are effectively memetic viruses, parasites of the human mind.

Very well said, I might requote that to someone else someday 

[10ebbor10]

That methaphor extends to all knowledge. Hell, it extends to most manmade and cultural phenomena. Do however not forget that most virusses are harmless, and that the altering goes in both ways.

I mean, you could even extend it to human beings (Ie, a single human is just a parasite of the society). Does life have a purpose other than itself? Are we more than what the society thinks us to be? Are we merely that what other think of us?* But anyway, such a discussion is unrelated to methaphor, and would lead us to far.


_{*The Religious answer is Yes, Yes and No.}

Very well said, I might requote that to someone else someday 

Meh. It's only a mediocre methaphor. It's also not very neutral. Were's the connotation smuggler devouring wolf when you need him.