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[Neonivek]

It's rather appalling that our society views killing a person as a lesser crime when it isn't done physically.

No it is quite easy to understand why society views things that way. Things suck, things suck for a lot of people, and bad things happen to others.

This is why we teach people to have the mental fortitude not to completely fall appart because someone is being mean to you.

The reason why we don't make it a serious law is because there are a lot of mentally unstable people who instead of seeking help will essentially kill themselves over what a normal healthy person will shrug off (or NOTHING AT ALL) and thus you could end up punishing someone for simply being distasteful.

as for "Lesser Crime" I should state that harassment ending in suicide is 10 years... You can be put in jail for less time for Manslaughter.

People are in control of their own actions to a certain extent and while harassment isn't excusable... I do not wave the "They drove them to suicide" flag everytime someone overreacts. I have no respect for suicide and will never glorify it.

So in this case NO I do not blame the teens/kids for driving her to suicide, she was already unstable and if this drove her over the edge she should have been in intense therapy. I do blame them for doing something horrific.

Though whether or not they knew it was a picture of rape is beyond me, since the article doesn't say.

I am just tired of revenge. I don't believe in retributive justice and find it to be a poison in society.

[Dutchling]

Okay, I think I get it. Driving people to suicide is okay, as long as they were probably (hopefully?) mentally unstable to begin with. Am I understanding you correctly?

[Glowcat]

It's rather appalling that our society views killing a person as a lesser crime when it isn't done physically.

No it is quite easy to understand why society views things that way. Things suck, things suck for a lot of people, and bad things happen to others.

This is why we teach people to have the mental fortitude not to completely fall appart because someone is being mean to you.

The reason why we don't make it a serious law is because there are a lot of mentally unstable people who instead of seeking help will essentially kill themselves over what a normal healthy person will shrug off (or NOTHING AT ALL) and thus you could end up punishing someone for simply being distasteful.

You can't teach "mental fortitude" and the sort of harassment involved in these bullying instances is far greater than simply "being mean." Neither will therapy or any other method of helping a person necessarily succeed because those things are aids, not water-tight cures.

I really don't want to continue this discussion either. If you think that anybody can shrug this sort of thing off and that you even have the faintest idea of what she experienced  (while talking shit about her and those like her) then ... there isn't an avenue for reasonable discussion. Setting out to ruin somebody's life is entirely different than casual rudeness.

[kahn1234]

It's rather appalling that our society views killing a person as a lesser crime when it isn't done physically.

No it is quite easy to understand why society views things that way. Things suck, things suck for a lot of people, and bad things happen to others.

This is why we teach people to have the mental fortitude not to completely fall appart because someone is being mean to you.

The reason why we don't make it a serious law is because there are a lot of mentally unstable people who instead of seeking help will essentially kill themselves over what a normal healthy person will shrug off (or NOTHING AT ALL) and thus you could end up punishing someone for simply being distasteful.

as for "Lesser Crime" I should state that harassment ending in suicide is 10 years... You can be put in jail for less time for Manslaughter.

People are in control of their own actions to a certain extent and while harassment isn't excusable... I do not wave the "They drove them to suicide" flag everytime someone overreacts. I have no respect for suicide and will never glorify it.

So in this case NO I do not blame the teens/kids for driving her to suicide, she was already unstable and if this drove her over the edge she should have been in intense therapy. I do blame them for doing something horrific.

Though whether or not they knew it was a picture of rape is beyond me, since the article doesn't say.

I am just tired of revenge. I don't believe in retributive justice and find it to be a poison in society.

She was gang raped and, when the little slugs posted photos of said rape on the net, she was humiliated and her former friends and classmates turned the bullying dial up to 11.

They drove her to suicide. they should all be tortured in the most painful and disturbing ways possible and then slowly killed, preferably by slow mutilation and evisceration, beginning at the feet.

[Xantalos]

Khan, I'm not the best reference for human morality, but won't doing that make you worse than the nascent bullies? Or does human society work on revenge now?

[nenjin]

Alright, let's bring down the intensity level of this discussion down one notch. Let's not displace the anger we feel at this thing on to each other.

[Lagslayer]

Jeez, Khan, even I wouldn't go that far.

[Neonivek]

Okay, I think I get it. Driving people to suicide is okay, as long as they were probably (hopefully?) mentally unstable to begin with. As I understanding you correctly?

No where close. Driving people to suicide is definately not ok.

Bumping harassment to murder because someone happened to be mentally unstable because it ended tragically is not. While I accept the "Thin skull rule" because the result on an ordinary person could have resulted the same way... I do not accept this as one of those instances.

You can't teach "mental fortitude" and the sort of harassment involved in these bullying instances is far greater than simply "being mean." Neither will therapy or any other method of helping a person succeed because those things are aids, not water-tight cures

You can teach "Mental fortitude" whenever someone calls you a name and you don't cry... That is because you taught yourself better. As a society we believe in a certain level of self-control and mental fortitude and teach people it.

Setting out to ruin somebody's life is entirely different than casual rudeness

That isn't what the article was about. They weren't seeking out to ruin anyone's life and they weren't the ones who did the rape or took the picture OR uploaded it online.

there isn't an avenue for reasonable discussion

To what extent are people responsible for their own actions? To what extent is someone responsible for the result of their actions? What are reasonable punishments for this?

If you think that anybody can shrug this sort of thing off and that you even have the faintest idea of what she experienced 

Ohh dear goodness no I fully expect her to be upset and unstable from such an event even if she was a ordinary healthy person.

They drove her to suicide

No, she commited suicide under her own free will and autonomy. There are many things she could have done.

If she didn't commit suicide what does that say about what happened to her? What does that say about commiting suicide? Suicide should NEVER be someone's option.

Rape is terrible and harassment is terrible and they deserve to be duely punished for it, yet, I do not accept revenge because it ended tragically.

As well you are making up information. Remember the article leaves out a LOT of information and it was likely that the kids who distributed the pictures knew nothing about the rape or if the picture was a rape.

Let's not displace the anger we feel at this thing on to each other

I am fine. I hear on the radio all the time of people who had their friends, family, pets killed and going "This is why we need the death penelty" and I am used to it. I understand retributive justice.

I cannot be mad at anyone here because I am just presenting my thoughts and feelings and they are presenting theirs.

[Max White]

Nobody is happy about what happened, and nobody thinks it is ok in any way shape or form, but ochlocracy is the death of rationality. To my understanding, nobody here is a judge, and most of us haven't studied law, so while we are clearly all saddened by an awful turn of events, we should leave punishment for those that spent their lives in the study of justice.

[Loud Whispers]

Interesting how this thread went from hating on a feminist group for protesting the presence of a rape-apologist to fuming with rage at the consequences of rape culture.

• They protested against a seminar by use of bully tactics. There was nowhere to be found someone being apologetic about rape, the only people who got close to that were the feminists and MRA shouting at each other and they were just arguing semantics.

Criticizing people for wasting the fire brigades' time and trying to get their points across by shouting "SHUT THE FUCK UP," does not constitute hating.

They drove her to suicide. they should all be tortured in the most painful and disturbing ways possible and then slowly killed, preferably by slow mutilation and evisceration, beginning at the feet.

Those four were not the only people who drove her to kill herself, yet you would do worse to them and to yourself by disregarding justice in favour of petty revenge.
You lot go uphold your warrior code and torture and execute whoever you feel deserves it, I'm out.

[Kansa]

She was gang raped and, when the little slugs posted photos of said rape on the net, she was humiliated and her former friends and classmates turned the bullying dial up to 11.

They drove her to suicide. they should all be tortured in the most painful and disturbing ways possible and then slowly killed, preferably by slow mutilation and evisceration, beginning at the feet.

No they shouldn't because that would make you every bit as bad as they are if not worse

[Glowcat]

Interesting how this thread went from hating on a feminist group for protesting the presence of a rape-apologist to fuming with rage at the consequences of rape culture.

• They protested against a seminar by use of bully tactics. There was nowhere to be found someone being apologetic about rape, the only people who got close to that were the feminists and MRA shouting at each other and they were just arguing semantics.

Hmm, my information was from the last big furor protest when the same MRA group invited Warren Farrell. My bad. Looking at their site it seems to be a major sticking point for their behavior here though.

Criticizing methods are fine if those criticisms are actually fair. Pulling a fire alarm may have been disruptive but it was, after all, a protest and not a friendly debate. They already know the people they're arguing with and are rightfully angry about some of the things they've said/done in the past. If the group in question dedicates itself to undermining equality by focusing on attacking feminism and blaming feminism for things it isn't responsible for, rather than overcoming sexism directed against men, then it's a hate group, and at that point they really don't owe the MIA group anything... at all. They find themselves personally threatened and it's not an attack on free speech when they protest against that.

[Kansa]

Hmm, my information was from the last big furor protest when the same MRA group invited Warren Farrell. My bad. Looking at their site it seems to be a major sticking point for their behavior here though.

Criticizing methods are fine if those criticisms are actually fair. Pulling a fire alarm may have been disruptive but it was, after all, a protest and not a friendly debate. They already know the people they're arguing with and are rightfully angry about some of the things they've said/done in the past. If the group in question dedicates itself to undermining equality by focusing on attacking feminism and blaming feminism for things it isn't responsible for, rather than overcoming sexism directed against men, then it's a hate group, and at that point they really don't owe the MIA group anything... at all. They find themselves personally threatened and it's not an attack on free speech when they protest against that.

The problem is that it just makes the feminism movement look bad, when doing any kind of protest you always want to make yourself look like the victim. This makes people who were on the edge of supporting you want to join you as they see you as the right side, however when you do stuff like this it does not help your cause in the slightest. The only people who are going to be impressed or happy that this happened supported the movement already and the people who were on the edge will be driven away from you as it seems like you are the aggressor in the situation. 

You can actually see the effect of this in this thread itself

[Loud Whispers]

Criticizing methods are fine if those criticisms are actually fair. Pulling a fire alarm may have been disruptive but it was, after all, a protest and not a friendly debate.

You drag your cause down when you waste emergency services' time and instead of having a friendly debate you bully your opponents into silence. There is no getting clearer than that.

They already know the people they're arguing with and are rightfully angry about some of the things they've said/done in the past. If the group in question dedicates itself to undermining equality by focusing on attacking feminism and blaming feminism for things it isn't responsible for, rather than overcoming sexism directed against men, then it's a hate group, and at that point they really don't owe the MIA group anything... at all. They find themselves personally threatened and it's not an attack on free speech when they protest against that.

I don't see how you can justify an attack on free speech with anger. Where do you draw the line of who gets to silence who because of what they've said/done in the past? Gender? Race? Religion? Social class?
Free speech is an inalienable right. And at the very least when protesting, act like a decent human being. Every protest group worth its weight knows this.

[Reelya]

This.

That... That is just evil and the way her fucking classmates treated her as well instead of helping and supporting her through the tragic time they decided to make fun of her for it

I don't even have words right now to express the depth of the hatred I'm feeling towards the sacks of shit who did that.

This is why we have the death penalty.

While I get that this is the rage thread, you should probably calm down a bit. Bullying is not a crime that deserves a death sentence.

They really should take the "distribution of child pornography" angle, if they can't get them for rape. Since it's objectively child porn that the perps spread online. Maximum sentence of 20 years in Canada for that. Seriously, people in Canada have been charged for possessing purely fictional materials (e.g. manga) depicting under 18 sex, and the goddamn system can't punish people for spreading actual photos of a child being raped? How broken is the legal system?