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Author Topic: Things that made you RRRRRRAAAAGGGGEEEE today: Trust-o-nomics Edition  (Read 3708529 times)

SalmonGod

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Re: Things that made you RRAAAAAGGGGEEEE today thread: VROOM VROOM! Edition
« Reply #13095 on: July 06, 2012, 09:01:11 pm »

not just blindly following speed limits like they're the word of god.

Speed traps don't help with this, either.  Fucking things are everywhere.

There's a single interstate that passes right by the suburb of Indianapolis that I live in.  It used to be two lanes (on either side), in a state of mediocre disrepair, and a speed limit of 65 mph.  A few years ago, they expanded it to 5 lanes, top notch pavement that has yet to show any deterioration, and added an exit and move another one to significantly reduce congestion.... and then dropped the speed limit to 55 and have had three cops lurking that stretch of road at all hours ever since.  As soon as you get past the exit into Plainfield (where I live), it's back down to two lanes of mediocre quality road and 70 mph.  Soooo much bullshit.

If speed limits are the word of god, he's one greedy motherfucker.
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

penguinofhonor

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Re: Things that made you RRAAAAAGGGGEEEE today thread: VROOM VROOM! Edition
« Reply #13096 on: July 06, 2012, 09:15:40 pm »

Ideally, I feel like we should promote intelligent driving based off awareness of and reaction to your surroundings. Speed traps promote filling officers' quotas.
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Jervill

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Re: Things that made you RRAAAAAGGGGEEEE today thread: VROOM VROOM! Edition
« Reply #13097 on: July 06, 2012, 09:27:46 pm »

not just blindly following speed limits like they're the word of god.

Speed traps don't help with this, either.  Fucking things are everywhere.

There's a single interstate that passes right by the suburb of Indianapolis that I live in.  It used to be two lanes (on either side), in a state of mediocre disrepair, and a speed limit of 65 mph.  A few years ago, they expanded it to 5 lanes, top notch pavement that has yet to show any deterioration, and added an exit and move another one to significantly reduce congestion.... and then dropped the speed limit to 55 and have had three cops lurking that stretch of road at all hours ever since.  As soon as you get past the exit into Plainfield (where I live), it's back down to two lanes of mediocre quality road and 70 mph.  Soooo much bullshit.

If speed limits are the word of god, he's one greedy motherfucker.

Plainfield?  Sounds like an absolutely exhilarating place to live. :P
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Hanslanda

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Re: Things that made you RRAAAAAGGGGEEEE today thread: VROOM VROOM! Edition
« Reply #13098 on: July 06, 2012, 09:33:40 pm »

Ideally, I feel like we should promote intelligent driving based off awareness of and reaction to your surroundings. Speed traps promote filling officers' quotas.


Actually, you are exactly correct. Experiments have shown that NO speed limit is safer. Everyone stops LOOKING AWAY FROM THE MOTHERFUCKING SPEEDING MULTITON BULLETS ON THE ROAD TO LOOK AT A GODDAMN GAUGE TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE BEING 'GOOD'. Speed limits DECREASE the safety of the road. I'll say it again, with support from Cracked:
http://www.cracked.com/article_19636_5-simple-ideas-that-could-make-travel-and-life-way-easier_p2.html

#2: Obliterate Road Signs.
Speed limit signs make driving UNSAFE. They DO NOT HELP.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2002/jun/30/uk.transport
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1533248/Is-this-the-end-of-the-road-for-traffic-lights.html
Those are Cracked's sources. Read it if you have to.


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Well, we could put two and two together and write a book: "The Shit that Hans and Max Did: You Won't Believe This Shit."
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Sirus

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Re: Things that made you RRAAAAAGGGGEEEE today thread: VROOM VROOM! Edition
« Reply #13099 on: July 06, 2012, 09:58:36 pm »

Looking away for the microsecond it takes to ascertain your speed doesn't strike me as unsafe. If conditions changed that quickly, you likely wouldn't have been able to respond anyway. I spend more time checking my mirrors than I do my speed, but I doubt anyone advocates getting rid of those.
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Hanslanda

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Re: Things that made you RRAAAAAGGGGEEEE today thread: VROOM VROOM! Edition
« Reply #13100 on: July 06, 2012, 10:01:00 pm »

Eh, I'm not going to say what I was going to say. I'm too tired to argue. I agree that we disagree I guess.
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Well, we could put two and two together and write a book: "The Shit that Hans and Max Did: You Won't Believe This Shit."
He's fucking with us.

SalmonGod

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Re: Things that made you RRAAAAAGGGGEEEE today thread: VROOM VROOM! Edition
« Reply #13101 on: July 06, 2012, 10:02:09 pm »

Looking away for the microsecond it takes to ascertain your speed doesn't strike me as unsafe. If conditions changed that quickly, you likely wouldn't have been able to respond anyway. I spend more time checking my mirrors than I do my speed, but I doubt anyone advocates getting rid of those.

Yeah, it takes a microsecond... but that's a lot of breaking distance in a sudden situation.  Plus, I check my speed constantly... like every few seconds... because if I don't, I subconsciously creep up to the speed at which I'm comfortable, and traffic police are numerous and rabid.
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

Sirus

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Re: Things that made you RRAAAAAGGGGEEEE today thread: VROOM VROOM! Edition
« Reply #13102 on: July 06, 2012, 10:06:39 pm »

Again though, mirrors and blindspots. Those take a hell of a lot longer to properly check and often involve turning your gaze away from the road entirely. Especially when changing lanes on a busy stretch of road. You can argue all you like about doing away with speed limits, but you don't get to use the argument that checking your speedometer is a fatal distraction when a dozen more important tasks take longer.

Unless you think we should do away with mirrors and looking over your shoulder entirely, in which case I'd have to ask you to never drive any sort of vehicle ever again.
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SalmonGod

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Re: Things that made you RRAAAAAGGGGEEEE today thread: VROOM VROOM! Edition
« Reply #13103 on: July 06, 2012, 10:13:44 pm »

We're saying that checking the speedometer is a distraction from general awareness, while you're saying that general awareness is a distraction from general awareness.....

And looking at the speedometer isn't even the reason I think speed limits are unsafe anyway.  I've read a couple of those studies on areas where they do away with traffic laws and see an improvement in safety and traffic flow.  The general observation is that people start paying more attention and communicating with each other, resulting in greater cooperation.  Traffic laws cause people to default their behavior instead of compromising with the immediate situation.  They assume that doing everything the signs & lights tell them + not speeding = the totality of safe driving, instead of actually paying attention to what the reality around them is doing.

Honestly, I think speed limits would be unnecessary if driving courses had a focused portion on breaking distance.  That's really the only practical limit on speed.

You should ideally be constantly scanning ahead for any obstacle that might enter the road in front of you, or any line of sight obstruction that could be hiding such an obstacle.  If at any point you would be unable to break before hitting one of those obstacles, you're going too fast.  If there's another vehicle in front of you, it's really simple.  Maintain a safe breaking distance from that vehicle, and try to stay a couple steps ahead in identifying anything that might cause them to stop.  Done.

If you're on an open expanse of of three lane highway in good condition with no traffic around you on a flat landscape in broad daylight, there's really no practical reason you shouldn't be able to drive 100 mph if you want.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2012, 10:27:09 pm by SalmonGod »
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

Hanslanda

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Re: Things that made you RRAAAAAGGGGEEEE today thread: VROOM VROOM! Edition
« Reply #13104 on: July 06, 2012, 10:23:59 pm »

As Cracked put it, "Whoa, that vehicle is being operated by a human being?!?"
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Well, we could put two and two together and write a book: "The Shit that Hans and Max Did: You Won't Believe This Shit."
He's fucking with us.

Sirus

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Re: Things that made you RRAAAAAGGGGEEEE today thread: VROOM VROOM! Edition
« Reply #13105 on: July 06, 2012, 10:47:49 pm »

Quote
We're saying that checking the speedometer is a distraction from general awareness, while you're saying that general awareness is a distraction from general awareness.....
Nope. I'm saying that of all the things you need to watch out for, a lot of them will occur in front of you (pedestrians, sudden stops or slowdown due to traffic, animals in the roadway, etc). If glancing down at your speedometer is such a huge distraction, then logically speaking turning your head to the side to check your blind spots is an even bigger distraction. You don't need to worry about the dog in the road behind you because it's extremely unlikely to be a threat to your safety at that point.

Quote
And looking at the speedometer isn't even the reason I think speed limits are unsafe anyway.  I've read a couple of those studies on areas where they do away with traffic laws and see an improvement in safety and traffic flow.  The general observation is that people start paying more attention and communicating with each other, resulting in greater cooperation.  Traffic laws cause people to default their behavior instead of compromising with the immediate situation.  They assume that doing everything the signs & lights tell them + not speeding = the totality of safe driving, instead of actually paying attention to what the reality around them is doing.
I believe that's a fault of driver education, not road laws. Yes, I pay attention to the road signs, but I also assume that A: It's entirely possible to make a mistake, and B: Other drivers and pedestrians around me might not give a damn and act in an unsafe way. I see signs of children playing, or even if there are a lot of cars parked on the sidewalks, and I sure as hell slow down and give those blind areas as wide a berth as possible. I have probably saved at least one life that way.

Quote
Honestly, I think speed limits would be unnecessary if driving courses had a focused portion on breaking distance.  That's really the only practical limit on speed.
That and the power of your engine. My 24-year-old car hates going anything above 80, despite the speedometer going up to 120. I'm not entirely sure it could even go that fast unless I was gunning it down a steep hill.

Quote
You should ideally be constantly scanning ahead for any obstacle that might enter the road in front of you, or any line of sight obstruction that could be hiding such an obstacle.  If at any point you would be unable to break before hitting one of those obstacles, you're going too fast.  If there's another vehicle in front of you, it's really simple.  Maintain a safe breaking distance from that vehicle, and try to stay a couple steps ahead in identifying anything that might cause them to stop.  Done.
This I agree with 100%. You should be driving at a safe speed for your current conditions, not going the speed limit (or over) at all times.

Quote
If you're on an open expanse of of three lane highway in good condition with no traffic around you on a flat landscape in broad daylight, there's really no practical reason you shouldn't be able to drive 100 mph if you want.
That's not really an option where I live, thanks to curving highways with lots of entrances, exits, and big rig trucks all over the place. I suppose it might work elsewhere, but around here going that fast is asking for either a ticket or a hospital visit.
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Quote from: Max White
And lo! Sirus did drive his mighty party truck unto Vegas, and it was good.

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Hanslanda

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Re: Things that made you RRAAAAAGGGGEEEE today thread: VROOM VROOM! Edition
« Reply #13106 on: July 06, 2012, 10:58:48 pm »

Uh, we didn't say it was a huge distraction. It is a distraction though, and while driving, ANY distraction is a calculated (hopefully) risk. What I was getting at was, why take the risk if it is not strictly necessary? But I digress. :)

I prefer the direction this conversation has taken to its previous tone. :)
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Well, we could put two and two together and write a book: "The Shit that Hans and Max Did: You Won't Believe This Shit."
He's fucking with us.

SalmonGod

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Re: Things that made you RRAAAAAGGGGEEEE today thread: VROOM VROOM! Edition
« Reply #13107 on: July 06, 2012, 11:19:46 pm »

I just think it's a more constant distraction compared to other glances away from the road ahead of you that are only done when necessary.  I check blind spots or side mirrors when I'm changing lanes (and I typically slow down a bit and try to select a safe moment).  Rear view mirror doesn't even take your eyes completely off the road.  I check (and possibly adjust, which takes even more attention) my speed every few seconds...
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

Hanslanda

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Re: Things that made you RRAAAAAGGGGEEEE today thread: VROOM VROOM! Edition
« Reply #13108 on: July 06, 2012, 11:22:14 pm »

I just think it's a more constant distraction compared to other glances away from the road ahead of you that are only done when necessary.  I check blind spots or side mirrors when I'm changing lanes (and I typically slow down a bit and try to select a safe moment).  Rear view mirror doesn't even take your eyes completely off the road.  I check (and possibly adjust, which takes even more attention) my speed every few seconds...


This. We shouldn't HAVE to check our speed. We only HAVE to check our speed because of the law. If you go over, you're being 'bad' and will be punished. If we didn't have that hanging over our head, we would be able to eliminate an admittedly small distraction/risk while driving, but it would still be one less distraction.
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Well, we could put two and two together and write a book: "The Shit that Hans and Max Did: You Won't Believe This Shit."
He's fucking with us.

sneakey pete

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Re: Things that made you RRAAAAAGGGGEEEE today thread: VROOM VROOM! Edition
« Reply #13109 on: July 06, 2012, 11:24:03 pm »

Get a "holographic" Hud. Then you can do both, no excuses :P
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