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[GlyphGryph]

I wonder if there was some sort of extenuating circumstance. People generally don't just change like that.
(Not saying the circumstance would justify it, of course)

I've been on that side, though, when I hit a particularly bad depressive period and became pretty terrible at everything, and was so so so happy my friends were able and willing to carry me through on the project, because I definitely would have failed on my own. :/

At least I had the decency to apologize to them mid-project and let them no how badly I was failing to meet my obligations.

your worst enemies in a group setting are your other group mates.

Ah, but they can also be your best assets. Part of gaining experience as a leader, instead of just as a worker, is being able to manage people into doing what you need done. And group exercises are primarily to benefit the inevitable leaders - if your group doesn't have one, you need to be it. Even if you would have gotten a higher grade by killing yourself to finish it on your own, you would have learned significantly less.

[RedKing]

See, I think school does group projects to prepare you for the real world. Because grown people act that way too.
Moral? If you want it done right, do it yourself. And then make sure to point out to the instructor/supervisor/boss that your groupmates were nothing but albatrosses.

Okay, that's actually probably not the best strategy, but it is the most satisfying one.

[GlyphGryph]

If you go for the leadership route, I highly recommend real milestones - find out who's not pulling their weight early and check in often.  If someone is seriously not going to do their end of the deal, report them to teacher while there's still plenty of time left in the project and make it clear you'd be better off/more likely to complete the project if you could drop him completely.

If they operate best under deadlines, set your own - deadlines that leave time to salvage things if needed. Group projects are in many ways a lesson in never cutting it close, because you can't control a great many of the things that can and will go wrong - like other people, who will no doubt be letting you down for the rest of your life in one way or another. But it doesn't make most of them bad, or even useless - if you are in charge, it simply makes them less valuable as an asset and more difficult to manage.

[penguinofhonor]

Moral? If you want it done right, do it yourself. And then make sure to point out to the instructor/supervisor/boss that your groupmates were nothing but albatrosses.

"He just clung to my back and forced me to endure the brunt of nature's wrath for a couple weeks."

[RedKing]

Moral? If you want it done right, do it yourself. And then make sure to point out to the instructor/supervisor/boss that your groupmates were nothing but albatrosses.

"He just clung to my back and forced me to endure the brunt of nature's wrath for a couple weeks."

I was thinking more of "He made a lot of noise, flapped around wildly, and shit on everything. Also, he eats a lot of fish."

[nenjin]

In American colleges, GPs don't prepare you for reality. It's just an extension of the same apathetic, low-energy, "couldn't give a fuck less about this" projects from your senior years in high school. At least until your senior year in college, but maybe not even then.

Reality has consequences. People get paid, they get promoted, they lose their jobs.....none of these things apply to college students. Only outright refusing to do a group project at all has real consequences. Otherwise, it's "just another D."

I suppose if you plan to be that overly energetic leader whose job it is to motivate people, sure, group projects will teach you something. Otherwise, kind of like Red King said, it's just an exercise in covering your own ass for most people. And I say this having been "the guy" who ended up leading most group projects. After a point, I just got sick of having to motivate people. If I were a manager, i'd fire their asses and find someone that's willing to work.

[GlyphGryph]

It definitely becomes less of an issue and more of a pleasure in more advanced classes where the unmotivated students have already failed out, switched majors, or failed to qualify, that much I'll admit. Working with those people for well over a year already, often closely, on a variety of projects inside and outside classes, can be very enjoyable.

[penguinofhonor]

I was thinking more of "He made a lot of noise, flapped around wildly, and shit on everything. Also, he eats a lot of fish."

Somebody's not into literature.

[RedKing]

I was thinking more of "He made a lot of noise, flapped around wildly, and shit on everything. Also, he eats a lot of fish."

Somebody's not into literature.

I was being ironic. I am ancient, but no mariner.

[nenjin]

Working with those people for well over a year already, often closely, on a variety of projects inside and outside classes, can be very enjoyable.

Yeah that's a qualification worth making. When you're doing 50 - 100 person lecture halls, and they force you into a group project, those suck. You don't know them, they don't know you and everyone is interested in their grade, not making connections.

When you've got an actual cohort, people you've gone to school with for one or more years in your discipline, those can be enjoyable group projects.

But freshmen/sophomore level/101 projects......it's intellectual hell.

[Araph]

I think the leader part was a bit of a problem. I stepped into the roll fast, but I didn't want to be overbearing. The first day of filming, I made the mistake of having the schedule be by consensus. I quickly realized that nobody would ever step up and get things moving, so that became my job. The apathy of others in a group is more painful than I would have thought.

I can't wait until I get to college, where another layer of the dross of humanity falls away into other life paths or, within college, majors that I won't interact with.

I wonder if there was some sort of extenuating circumstance. People generally don't just change like that.
(Not saying the circumstance would justify it, of course)

I considered that, but it's really unlikely. I think the cause behind the incompetency was procrastination followed by an uncaring rush to complete the project.

[nenjin]

In my experience, you have to resist the urge to avoid being "overbearing." Most people in group projects crave direction of some sort, but when you leave it up to them, they'll do less work, not more. So you've got to get on people, if you honestly want the grade you feel you deserve. You'll rub some people the wrong way, you might clash with someone else who has a leadership personality.....but that's far preferable to the vacuum of responsibility that occurs when you DON'T push people to the degree you feel needs to happen.

Everytime I was like "yeah I'm just going to let these guys manage themselves" it went terribly. (Except in my higher level courses.) In those low-level, introductory courses, being a little overbearing got things done and led to a consistent result.

If you've got any degree of maturity, group projects in college are basically about your tolerance for playing mommy for high school students. I fucking hated it.

[kaijyuu]

So I get to fool around with windows games at work. Oh, and post here.

Ever played Hearts? The computer's a cheating bastard. Plus, you should know how annoying it is to avoid points.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

AAAAARRRRGG

So very close to a perfect game! In the least amount of turns, too! But no, the damn computer has to sweep it out from under me and give me a tainted "win."

[DeKaFu]

Trying to find a toothpaste.

All I want is some toothpaste that meets the following criteria:
A) No mint flavor.
B) Has ingredients for sensitivity.
C) Contains actual fluoride and active ingredients and not magical all-natural garbage.

Did you know, that this product doesn't exist??
After searching a bunch of stores I went online and still couldn't find it. The ones that meet criteria A are mostly kid's toothpastes and therefore lack criteria B. The vanishingly small number that meet A and claim to meet B fail on C.

I've spent hours and hours looking into this, scouring online and reading reviews of flavours and ingredients. I'd even be willing to import this from overseas if I could find it but it's just not out there! Gahh. D:<

[penguinofhonor]

Are there none that meet B and C but are mint? I feel like that's going to be your best bet.