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Author Topic: Things that made you RRRRRRAAAAGGGGEEEE today: Trust-o-nomics Edition  (Read 3750061 times)

Frumple

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Re: Things that made you RRAAAAAGGGGEEEE today thread: Hamanamena-SOLD! Edition
« Reply #10110 on: April 06, 2012, 09:13:57 am »

*mumblemutter* Beware the whole absolute statement thing, kaij. It's been years since I was as comfortable with a controller as I am with a keyboard, and that was far and away before I'd actually learned to type worth a flip. Even before that, though, the ergonomics of most controllers (certainly all the ones I've actually used in my lifetime) just don't suit my hands. So both the keyboard and the controller were initially awkward for me, and the keyboard become considerably less so, even despite (for a long period) roughly equal usage.

Now, for someone who, well, can't type well? Yeah, that's a different thing. Hunt and peck folks won't have much luck, heh, or even folks that just aren't comfortable with a keyboard (Hands don't quite fit, or whathaveyou.). But... yeah. It's not an absolute "Controllers are less awkward than keyboards for everyone" thing.

That said, you usually do need to reconfigure some controls to get things comfortable. Default controls are usually some variation of shit (Arrow keys, I'm looking at you, you poorly placed pieces of shite.).
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Rose

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Re: Things that made you RRAAAAAGGGGEEEE today thread: Hamanamena-SOLD! Edition
« Reply #10111 on: April 06, 2012, 09:18:02 am »

Hey guys, guess what...

I have a controller.

On my PC.

Is your mind blown yet?
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Darvi

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Re: Things that made you RRAAAAAGGGGEEEE today thread: Hamanamena-SOLD! Edition
« Reply #10112 on: April 06, 2012, 09:20:35 am »

It's incredibly convenient when your leopard can't do up+left or down+right simultaneously.
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Rose

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Re: Things that made you RRAAAAAGGGGEEEE today thread: Hamanamena-SOLD! Edition
« Reply #10113 on: April 06, 2012, 09:24:47 am »

Also great in racing games, since leopards can't do partial turns.
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kaijyuu

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Re: Things that made you RRAAAAAGGGGEEEE today thread: Hamanamena-SOLD! Edition
« Reply #10114 on: April 06, 2012, 09:47:28 am »

*mumblemutter* Beware the whole absolute statement thing, kaij. It's been years since I was as comfortable with a controller as I am with a keyboard, and that was far and away before I'd actually learned to type worth a flip. Even before that, though, the ergonomics of most controllers (certainly all the ones I've actually used in my lifetime) just don't suit my hands. So both the keyboard and the controller were initially awkward for me, and the keyboard become considerably less so, even despite (for a long period) roughly equal usage.

Now, for someone who, well, can't type well? Yeah, that's a different thing. Hunt and peck folks won't have much luck, heh, or even folks that just aren't comfortable with a keyboard (Hands don't quite fit, or whathaveyou.). But... yeah. It's not an absolute "Controllers are less awkward than keyboards for everyone" thing.

That said, you usually do need to reconfigure some controls to get things comfortable. Default controls are usually some variation of shit (Arrow keys, I'm looking at you, you poorly placed pieces of shite.).
Well yeah. I can certainly see someone being more comfortable with, say, using 4 fingers for 4 buttons rather than 1 thumb for 4 buttons. Some controllers are shoddily designed (cough xbox controllers cough), and the ps3/xbox controllers do have some long distance finger movement from d-pad to thumbstick. Let's not talk about the wiimote.

Also, were I ever to design a FPS, 4x game, or RTS, I'd do it on a PC for the mouse.
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Shinotsa

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Re: Things that made you RRAAAAAGGGGEEEE today thread: Hamanamena-SOLD! Edition
« Reply #10115 on: April 06, 2012, 10:09:00 am »

I REALLY don't want to start a war here, so PM me if you have any strong feelings...

*facepalm* shouldn't have brought it up

While we're on the topic of controllers, they need to offer different sizes/types for each console. They can still have the same inputs and contours where you would attach a mic or something, but I LOVED the big, hulking, bulky original xbox controllers. You know, the ones that came out with the console? The ones that looked like they were designed by cavemen as weapons for bludgeoning mating competition. Loved em.

I'm also not sure which is more realistic for FPS games. I know controller movement is clunky, but there's just something about being able to kill someone behind you even after they got the first shot on you with an automatic weapon that doesn't sit well with me. Maybe I'm just clumsy and slow myself, but it seems like a more realistic experience. Granted the whole argument is kinda moot when you realize that in ANY FPS your head is glued on looking forward. Track IR needs to expand its market

Edit: Emphasis
« Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 10:23:18 am by Shinotsa »
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nenjin

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Re: Things that made you RRAAAAAGGGGEEEE today thread: Hamanamena-SOLD! Edition
« Reply #10116 on: April 06, 2012, 10:15:32 am »

If you don't want to talk about it, don't post it. Seriously. I hate that "I'm gonna say something but I don't want anyone to respond to it" thing.

And this isn't a war. It's a discussion. At least so far.
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kaijyuu

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Re: Things that made you RRAAAAAGGGGEEEE today thread: Hamanamena-SOLD! Edition
« Reply #10117 on: April 06, 2012, 10:23:21 am »

Variable size controllers would be nice, but expensive. I'm pretty sure most console producers are content with letting 3rd parties handle stuff like that.



And don't get my started on first person perspective. Your view is centered roughly where your throat should be, and you apparently have blinders on as you have 0 peripheral vision. I always go to third person if the game allows, like for Skyrim. I understand why it caught on, especially in the early days when 3d games all had horrible cameras, but until VR goggles or something that give peripheral vision are commonly used, I'll always consider it inferior to a properly done 3rd person perspective.
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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

Nadaka

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Re: Things that made you RRAAAAAGGGGEEEE today thread: Hamanamena-SOLD! Edition
« Reply #10118 on: April 06, 2012, 10:26:35 am »

You can do peripheral vision using multiple monitors and adjusting the field of view angle (though some games consider adjusting the field of view to be cheating and disallow it).
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nenjin

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Re: Things that made you RRAAAAAGGGGEEEE today thread: Hamanamena-SOLD! Edition
« Reply #10119 on: April 06, 2012, 10:30:59 am »

You can do peripheral vision using multiple monitors and adjusting the field of view angle (though some games consider adjusting the field of view to be cheating and disallow it).

Which is starting to become more popular as more people SLI their cards. Nvidia is also trying to incorporate support for Nview or whatever that multi-monitor thing they have is.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

RedKing

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Re: Things that made you RRAAAAAGGGGEEEE today thread: Hamanamena-SOLD! Edition
« Reply #10120 on: April 06, 2012, 10:36:03 am »

I've seen a flight-sim setup with four monitors before (one front, one on each side, and one flat-panel mounted overhead).

Impractical, but awesome.

I've got a dual-monitor setup at home, but I can't think of any games that actually use both at once.
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Skyrunner

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Re: Things that made you RRAAAAAGGGGEEEE today thread: Hamanamena-SOLD! Edition
« Reply #10121 on: April 06, 2012, 10:39:12 am »

I've seen flight sim setups with three screens for windows, one GPS screen, and a mockup controlling cet complete with pedals, various gauges and yoke.

Those are really inpracticaly awesome.
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Shinotsa

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Re: Things that made you RRAAAAAGGGGEEEE today thread: Hamanamena-SOLD! Edition
« Reply #10122 on: April 06, 2012, 10:40:54 am »

I think trackIR would be an awesome addition to any game, and adding a range of motion for the head shouldn't be too terribly difficult to program in, (again, I'm driving a dumptruck of salt in for you all to take with that statment) though it would probably decrease performance in competitive online gaming. I just think skyrim would have been vastly improved if you could look behind you while running from the dragons. Think Mount & Blade first person view when on a horse, but controlled by your head movements.

Sadly I don't see any support for this in the future, especially since most people have no clue what trackIR is. Hell, I learned about it a month ago from a let's play and hadn't heard single a thing about it before then.
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nenjin

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Re: Things that made you RRAAAAAGGGGEEEE today thread: Hamanamena-SOLD! Edition
« Reply #10123 on: April 06, 2012, 10:45:59 am »

Well Google is now pushing its Google-glasses, so maybe trackIR isn't that far off in the future. In another few years too I expect mo-cap gaming is going to bring the hardware to PCs as well.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

kaijyuu

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Re: Things that made you RRAAAAAGGGGEEEE today thread: Hamanamena-SOLD! Edition
« Reply #10124 on: April 06, 2012, 10:48:10 am »

TrackIR? Ah, some head movement tracker? I've seen similar stuff done with wiimotes, and the Kinect seems tailor made for it.

'Tis an interesting idea but I'm skeptical of motion sensors. At least until we have star trek holidecks, anyway.


Re: looking behind you in Skyrim. Oh yeah, me too. The 3rd person setup is similar, but not identical, to WoW's setup, so I was constantly trying to move the camera to look behind and it bugged the hell out of me that I couldn't. Damn you muscle memory and shoddy camera systems.
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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.
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