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[Nadaka]

That is a violation of the 4th amendment. I hate that kids are being trained to accept the yoke of the police state and violation of their own rights.

Kids are property until they turn 18.


That said, I'm not quite sure it violates the 4th amendment. Someone more versed in law will probably be able to say for sure, but since the school informs kids that they're doing these searches ahead of time, they can no longer "expect privacy."

Even if that is the case, kids are their parents property, not the schools.

They are physically subjecting the student to search and seizing part of their body without a warrant or probably cause. Being informed that you will be searched does not remove your reasonable expectation of privacy. Your person, your body is always private. This is clearly and unquestionably a violation the 4th amendment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expectation_of_privacy

$10,000 say it's a clause in the school's registration papers, and that most of the parents are in favor.

school attendance is mandatory. You can not be so simply forced to give up your rights.

If you give a damn about liberty and justice you have to fight for it,
not blindly accept it when they say that tyranny is your only choice.

I hate that children are being taught to accept this authoritarian bullshit. It goes way, way beyond this one random event. It is a sickness infecting schools around the US. School uniforms, random drug searches, fingerprint scanning, prohibiting alternative hair color, piercings and tattoos, banning talking about alternative genders, banning non-christian religious symbols, etc. Children are being trained to be cogs in machine, indoctrinated in conformity, made to accept infringement on their freedoms and rights because they are never allowed to experience anything else. It is unethical, not just because it is wrong, but because its purpose is to brainwash people into accepting the yoke of tyranny.

[Scaraban]

-massive quote snip-
school attendance is mandatory. You can not be so simply forced to give up your rights.
-snip-

True, but very rarely can you not open enroll somewhere else if you don't like this school's policies. Also, they're your parents rights to you, and it's a rare parent that gives a damn about their kid's privacy if it's "for their own good"

[Virex]

We have bi-weekly random drug testing here, and they nearly always catch people. When they are caught, they go to court under charges of drug use and usually get probation and weekly drug testing for a while. Usually 6 months to a year. Repeat offenders often get house arrest. Though personally, I don't think that the tests are helping much. The people at my school still do it and hope that they aren't chosen for the test, and if they're caught, they just suck it up and take their charge(s). Then when their probation is over they go right back to the drugs :| My town is small to medium sized, with some stuff to do, but it can get pretty boring.

That is a violation of the 4th amendment. I hate that kids are being trained to accept the yoke of the police state and violation of their own rights.

I find the fact that they keep going back to drugs more troubling than some minor infringement on their privacy actually...

[scriver]

Children are being trained to be cogs in machine, indoctrinated in conformity, made to accept infringement on their freedoms and rights because they are never allowed to experience anything else.

But don't you know
The school's task is as it should
To school the working force
If the broom's are going to sweep well
You can't mess up the shafts

I'm not a very good translator

Or for the non-punkers, the original progg version.

[jc6036]

Actually, the actual searches were stopped after a lawsuit a few years back. The drug tests, on the other hand, are completly optional. But if you choose not to take it, they suspect that you have something to hide and take it to court, and try to get some court ordered drug testing. So if they're on drugs, they're screwed either way.

[Nadaka]

Actually, the actual searches were stopped after a lawsuit a few years back. The drug tests, on the other hand, are completly optional. But if you choose not to take it, they suspect that you have something to hide and take it to court, and try to get some court ordered drug testing. So if they're on drugs, they're screwed either way.

Refusal to submit to an illegal search is not probable cause for a legal search.

[Bdthemag]

Actually, the actual searches were stopped after a lawsuit a few years back. The drug tests, on the other hand, are completly optional. But if you choose not to take it, they suspect that you have something to hide and take it to court, and try to get some court ordered drug testing. So if they're on drugs, they're screwed either way.

Refusal to submit to an illegal search is not probable cause for a legal search.

Yeah, but the thing is if your not doing drugs you probally wouldn't mind that much.

[Nadaka]

Actually, the actual searches were stopped after a lawsuit a few years back. The drug tests, on the other hand, are completly optional. But if you choose not to take it, they suspect that you have something to hide and take it to court, and try to get some court ordered drug testing. So if they're on drugs, they're screwed either way.

Refusal to submit to an illegal search is not probable cause for a legal search.

Yeah, but the thing is if your not doing drugs you probally wouldn't mind that much.

You would mind if you respect your personal liberty and the rule of law that is the foundation of our society.

[Leatra]

That is a violation of the 4th amendment. I hate that kids are being trained to accept the yoke of the police state and violation of their own rights.

Kids are property until they turn 18.


That said, I'm not quite sure it violates the 4th amendment. Someone more versed in law will probably be able to say for sure, but since the school informs kids that they're doing these searches ahead of time, they can no longer "expect privacy."

Even if that is the case, kids are their parents property, not the schools.

They are physically subjecting the student to search and seizing part of their body without a warrant or probably cause. Being informed that you will be searched does not remove your reasonable expectation of privacy. Your person, your body is always private. This is clearly and unquestionably a violation the 4th amendment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expectation_of_privacy

$10,000 say it's a clause in the school's registration papers, and that most of the parents are in favor.

school attendance is mandatory. You can not be so simply forced to give up your rights.

If you give a damn about liberty and justice you have to fight for it,
not blindly accept it when they say that tyranny is your only choice.

I hate that children are being taught to accept this authoritarian bullshit. It goes way, way beyond this one random event. It is a sickness infecting schools around the US. School uniforms, random drug searches, fingerprint scanning, prohibiting alternative hair color, piercings and tattoos, banning talking about alternative genders, banning non-christian religious symbols, etc. Children are being trained to be cogs in machine, indoctrinated in conformity, made to accept infringement on their freedoms and rights because they are never allowed to experience anything else. It is unethical, not just because it is wrong, but because its purpose is to brainwash people into accepting the yoke of tyranny.

Did you guys read the book named Nineteen Eighty-Four? I may sound crazy but I think this is what we are headed for.

We go to school to waste our time. Don't tell me that what they teach you at school is useful. An engineer doesn't need to learn Persian mythology. A lawyer doesn't need to learn trigonometry. They can learn it if they like. Teaching it by force? Not cool.

"Free time" can be a dangerous thing. Goverments don't want that. Therefore, something must be created to make sure young people has got something to spend their time on.

In school, I just sleep on the desk or read a book sometimes. I can't stop that little pragmatic voice in my head and pay attention to lessons.

[PyroDesu]

Okay, my brother just managed to set a pan of oil on fire...

The pan is a little blackened but noting really bad happened.

Lucky us.

[Bdthemag]

They can do random searches on lockers and such because those containers are their property, so therefore they have the right so search through them. If a teacher does a quick check on my locker, I do not feel that my person rights are being violated.

I mean, would you rather have a bunch of druggies running around selling drugs. Or would you rather have a few people searched.

[Darvi]

I'd value my privacy more than other people's health, especially if said people inflicted it upon themselves out of stupidity.

[Nadaka]

Leatra: a broad education makes a well rounded person. If you are going to choose what you want to be in life, instead of accept what you are told to be, you need a wider range of experiences and knowledge. Knowledge is a basic prerequisite for exercising real freedom.

Bdthemag: I would rather the school respect the rule of law. Locker searches are arguably acceptable,  random drug tests are not nor are searches of private containers (such as your pockets and book bag) without probable cause or a warrant.

[SalmonGod]

I hate that children are being taught to accept this authoritarian bullshit. It goes way, way beyond this one random event. It is a sickness infecting schools around the US. School uniforms, random drug searches, fingerprint scanning, prohibiting alternative hair color, piercings and tattoos, banning talking about alternative genders, banning non-christian religious symbols, etc. Children are being trained to be cogs in machine, indoctrinated in conformity, made to accept infringement on their freedoms and rights because they are never allowed to experience anything else. It is unethical, not just because it is wrong, but because its purpose is to brainwash people into accepting the yoke of tyranny.

I had a discussion with my parents about this lastnight. 

They were saying that there are still plenty of jobs in the u.s. for people who properly educate themselves, but kids today have no attention span or self-discipline, so they don't study difficult subjects like math/hard sciences/technology. 

I told them basically what you just said... that I had no interest in education in my teen years, because it seemed like schools deliberately made important subjects an agonizing experience, made the school environment feel like a prison, very obviously poured more of their already scarce funding into sports and glorifying patriotism than actual education, and supported bullies in their practice of victimizing those who still got good grades or otherwise exhibited intelligence.  Everything I've managed to do with myself is in spite of our education system, and even if it were the sole cause for today's problems, I couldn't blame today's youth for being uneducated, disillusioned, and (if you add in all our problems with broken/over-worked families) averted to traditional over-achieving definitions of success.

I actually made a pin when I was 16 that read "School Sucks, Education Rules" that I wore for over a year whenever I wasn't at school.  Basically stopped wearing it when I got to college.

[Leatra]

Leatra: a broad education makes a well rounded person. If you are going to choose what you want to be in life, instead of accept what you are told to be, you need a wider range of experiences and knowledge. Knowledge is a basic prerequisite for exercising real freedom

They were saying that there are still plenty of jobs in the u.s. for people who properly educate themselves, but kids today have no attention span or self-discipline, so they don't study difficult subjects like math/hard sciences/technology. 

Everybody thinks kids have no attention span and self-discipline because intelligent and nerd children are silent types. Rebellious and lazy types attract more attention. School creates "teens versus adults" image in the minds of children. Forcing people to learn a subject will only make people hate that subject. Well, At least I have experienced enough maths in my life to not choose a profession that involves maths. I know a lot of ignorant douchebag adults. School can't teach biology to a kid if that kid doesn't have interest in biology.