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[Bohandas]

They're personably unverifiable in many cases due to the level of devoted specialization required to understand the more complex areas of many fields.

PLUS, a lot of scientific papers aren't available for free online. You usually have to get a subscription to some hosting site like Jstor to see full papers.

[Willfor]

They're personably unverifiable in many cases due to the level of devoted specialization required to understand the more complex areas of many fields. No one can learn them all, but we can trust that other members of the field will jump all over someone who tries to publish incorrect findings. Self-regulation is what makes science an effective tool to make discoveries. I don't think calling that behavior religious is accurate.

You are thinking about it from an entirely different perspective then.

The scientist in this model is simply the newest in a long line of archetypes who over history have done exactly what you said in your post. This role was originally filled by religion, and thus, they are the codifiers, and science has become like unto god in this manner. People don't really ~know~ science, it is a far off concept to the layman, and they have to rely on someone else's word unless they decide to become specialists in the field themselves.

If you're going to rail against this as a concept that has largely defined man's relationship with religion, you have to rail against history and reality.

[Vector]

Self-regulation is what makes science an effective tool to make discoveries. I don't think calling that behavior religious is accurate.

I say this mostly due to various folks I know who will take anything with "scientists say" in front as absolutely correct, (and anything "priests/people in liberal arts say" as automatically incorrect or too obvious to accord any respect) and follow the concept of science with a near-religious zeal, to the exclusion of modes of thinking which do not employ physical experiments.  The expertise of a scientist is lauded over the expertise of any other kind of thinker... despite the fact that all of us can be deeply wrong.

Well, anyway.  I don't mean to say that I'm against science by conflating it with religious belief in some instances.  Just saying "Hey, this thing exists, too."

[Bohandas]

Three things caused seething rage in me today.

A) I went to my first Philosophy class. Hoo boy. Prof whipped out hoaxes that he believed were factual (someone found dozens of mastodons at the north pole? Where there's no land?), pseudoscience and vague science-ish sounding bullshit, declared all religions but one wrong and all but one god made up(although he didn't specify, I can take a guess), decried mathematics as "useless junk", and then said, and I quote (hence the quotes): "There are no atheists. Not one." I may have to nudge this prof to lean in a direction where he's not always right. If that fails, I will use every sales technique I have ever learned, and every Dawkins/Russel/Hawking/etc quote I have ever read, and crush this man under an avalanche of holes poked in his religion. Normally, I leave people alone with their beliefs, but you attack mine outright and decry them as wrong and immoral, I attack back. I will not be a captive audience to be brainwashed.

Your professor sounds like he takes a lot of drugs or something. If you could find evidence of such, you could get him locked up.

Failing that, don't forget to whip out Nietzsche quotes too, given that its a philosophy class.

[Vector]

Specifically, "God is dead."

Trolololololo.

[MaximumZero]

I would say that, but I never believe one existed. I think I'm going to go over my deconversion story if the opportunity arises.

[sonerohi]

I'll pay you money to make an allegory out of your deconversion, parodying whatever faith your professor has. I will pay you so many monies.

[MaximumZero]

What if I just re-tell the story I posted here a while back? Lemme see if I can find it...

[Nadaka]

MaximumZero: I am going to take a wild stab in the dark and suggest the possibility that he made those outrageous statements to try and get people to think. Or... Like everyone else says, he is a blithering idiot.

[Bohandas]

MaximumZero: I am going to take a wild stab in the dark and suggest the possibility that he made those outrageous statements to try and get people to think. Or... Like everyone else says, he is a blithering idiot.

I was kind of thinking that too.

[MaximumZero]

What if I just re-tell the story I posted here a while back? Lemme see if I can find it...

'ere ya go. http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=34795.msg1604644#msg1604644

MaximumZero: I am going to take a wild stab in the dark and suggest the possibility that he made those outrageous statements to try and get people to think. Or... Like everyone else says, he is a blithering idiot.

I was kind of thinking that too.

No, he was definitely a blithering idiot. I've never seen a teacher at any level that can't spell the word "Evidence" and goes on a 45 minute tangent about Ted Kennedy hating the US Military.

[Bauglir]

Oh man, that thread. I feel like my last post in it is the truest thing I've ever said. That's on-topic, by the way.

[MaximumZero]

Oh man, that thread. I feel like my last post in it is the truest thing I've ever said. That's on-topic, by the way.

It's an unfortunate truth of mass communication in any sense of the phrase. I was so afraid that that flamewar got deleted.

[Reelyanoob]

I graduated with a batchelors degree in math and in economics right before the banking crisis.  Same idea, really.  It's painful and demoralizing.

Same here, but Comp Sci. degree just before the dotcom crash. RRAAAGGGEE. Never been able to get the job I want.

[Reelyanoob]

No, he was definitely a blithering idiot. I've never seen a teacher at any level that can't spell the word "Evidence" and goes on a 45 minute tangent about Ted Kennedy hating the US Military.

All I can suggest is ... tape his lectures, send any "good" tapes to the Dean etc, with a threat to release them to the media. See how quickly things change then. If not, then it shows how little people care about philosophy that they let this crap get taught.