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[RedKing]

Of course. If you ask an average student s(he) won't want to learn a thing that seems complex. But do they really have to teach college stuff (IMO) like trigonometry at high school?

I learned it in 9th grade, so...it doesn't seem that advanced to me.

And Virex is right, the ability to convert a situation into a mathematical model, perform your calculation, then translate the mathematical result back into a real-world explanation is a *core* skill in life. Down to things like "I have 25 days to be ready for this trial. Discovery takes X days per witness, and we have three legal strategies, each of which involves calling a different number of witnesses, but some of the witnesses are the same for all cases, and each has a different probability of success....what's the time-optimal strategy to pursue?"

[Leatra]

Since grade school, I have always went "WTF?" with maths questions they asked at school. Here is an example I faced when I was around 8 years old:

There are 8 chickens and an unknown number of horses in an animal farm. When you count their legs, there are 28 legs. How many horses are there?

I was like "Just stop wasting our time with counting legs and count the damn animals already". What a genius solution right? I guess that explains why I still can't learn a maths topic without thinking "What kinda stuff are we going to use this knowledge for? I would be okay if it was general knowledge but..."

...But that's just missing the point, it's just a metaphor to make the example less abstract. Would your eight-year-old self preferred it if it said. "X=2Z, Y=4Z. You have 8X and 28Z. How many Y do you have?"

(Also I hope I did that right because I suck at math too and there is a big chance I failed )

Well, I would went "WTF?" anyway. I guess creating illogical metaphors is better than that But they should at least make the students think "Oh, mathematics are very useful" I don't know how to do that though.

The ability to just shut up and work on a task is quite an important one too. Besides that, many of the seemingly senseless problems (like the leg-counting one you mentioned) train you to convert a textually explained problem into one a mathematic problem. In that case they were trying to get you to realize that you could solve the problem by realizing you'd need to solve the equation 4*h + 16 = 28. I would argue that the ability to convert problems and the realization that problems are convertible between different kinds of descriptions is actually something very important and mathematics helps a lot with that.

Sorry. I can't just shut up and work on a task without thinking about the purpose. That's why I think I would be the worst soldier in the world. I just think those metaphors should be logical to make students understand the topic better and stop brats like me going "What do we need this stuff for? Geez"

Of course. If you ask an average student s(he) won't want to learn a thing that seems complex. But do they really have to teach college stuff (IMO) like trigonometry at high school?

I learned it in 9th grade, so...it doesn't seem that advanced to me.

And Virex is right, the ability to convert a situation into a mathematical model, perform your calculation, then translate the mathematical result back into a real-world explanation is a *core* skill in life. Down to things like "I have 25 days to be ready for this trial. Discovery takes X days per witness, and we have three legal strategies, each of which involves calling a different number of witnesses, but some of the witnesses are the same for all cases, and each has a different probability of success....what's the time-optimal strategy to pursue?"

Wow. We learn it at 10th grade. I forgot it all though.

They don't really teach they skill. I don't know what kind of education is going on there but come to my school and ask that to 100 students. I will jump from a sykscraper if 5 can answer correctly. Rote learning system is used here and I'm pretty sure we will forget everything when we graduate.

Did anyone get the feeling that this thread is about to turn into something else? Just sayin'

[RedKing]

My teacher was pretty decent about presenting a problem and then goign through that exact process of breaking it into math chunks, doing the math, then turning the math back in real-world answers. Now granted, not everybody got it, but then that's part of what school is for, IMHO -- to start differentiating the people who get it from the people who don't. I think math is pretty decently taught in the US public system (from my admittedly dated experience). It's History that's a godawful train-wreck. That, and basic critical thinking/logic.

[Neonivek]

Let me see...

Chickens is X and horses is Y and together there are 28 legs... Of which we know Chickens have 2 and horses have 4. However we know how many chickens there are... So let me see

2( + 4(Y) = 28
16 + 4(Y) = 28
4(y) = 12
y = 12/4
y = 3

There were 3 horses.

It was teaching you how to extrapolate information without having every peice infront of you. In otherwords it is a set up for much more difficult problems. Such as calculating a the sides of a triangle knowing only one (which actually IS needed for a few fields) or simple deduction.

I have 25 days to be ready for this trial. Discovery takes X days per witness, and we have three legal strategies, each of which involves calling a different number of witnesses, but some of the witnesses are the same for all cases, and each has a different probability of success....what's the time-optimal strategy to pursue?"

There is no math equasion that can solve this. You actually have to attempt each one.

[nenjin]

Did anyone get the feeling that this thread is about to turn into something else? Just sayin'

If I raeged at every time the Math junkies hi-jacked forum threads.....

[Leatra]

My teacher was pretty decent about presenting a problem and then goign through that exact process of breaking it into math chunks, doing the math, then turning the math back in real-world answers. Now granted, not everybody got it, but then that's part of what school is for, IMHO -- to start differentiating the people who get it from the people who don't. I think math is pretty decently taught in the US public system (from my admittedly dated experience). It's History that's a godawful train-wreck. That, and basic critical thinking/logic.

Wow. Your teacher sounds awesome. I wish our teacher was more than "and also f(-2)=11. Now go solve this question while I scream at some kids in the corridor"

He didn't say that though 

Let me see...

Chickens is X and horses is Y and together there are 28 legs... Of which we know Chickens have 2 and horses have 4. However we know how many chickens there are... So let me see

2( + 4(Y) = 28
16 + 4(Y) = 28
4(y) = 12
y = 12/4
y = 3

There were 3 horses.

I'm being purely honest. There are a lot of students I know who can't turn it like this. I was raging about our education system mostly. Here, when we try to answer a question like this

f(x)=(3-a)x²+(2b-2)x^c-3+d-2
a.b+c/d=?

we don't know what any of it means. We can't create a metaphor about that legs problem. We just memorise bunch of stuff. That's just fucking hilarious isn't it? Sure we can solve it but we don't know what it means. It's just like an another language.

I'm pretty sure you guys have a great system. We just memorise stuff that we don't know what it means. Fuck the rote learning system

Edit: Sorry for the crazy amount of typos.

[Aqizzar]

Had to make three calls to Time Warner Cable about my new phone.  First, I found out that the work order hadn't been completed, so a five minute call to the phone center got them off their asses.  Then I notice my Internet doesn't work, so the next call tells me I have to daisychain my new phone modem to my old router.  That takes ten minutes to hook up and doesn't work.  Third call, they tell me two routers can't be activated at the same time, so I have to drive over to the service center and get a new one.

Fuck you people, just turn on both routers.  Why is that not an option?

[Neonivek]

Sorry I have to correct something.

About the Chickens and Horses.

I was wrong. The question cannot be answered.

[RedKing]

Sure it can. Just not with definitive accuracy.

[Neonivek]

Sure it can. Just not with definitive accuracy.

Well you would have to assume ALL the chickens involved had 2 legs and ALL the horses involved had 4 legs.

What is more hillarious? even the question mentions how you counted all their legs anyway... why didn't you count the animals instead?

[RedKing]

Perhaps they're behind a tall fence, and all you can see are the legs.

[Neonivek]

Perhaps they're behind a tall fence, and all you can see are the legs.

But then we get into the scenario where some legs may belong to non-chickens and non-horses.

[Virex]

Sure it can. Just not with definitive accuracy.

Well you would have to assume ALL the chickens involved had 2 legs and ALL the horses involved had 4 legs.

What is more hillarious? even the question mentions how you counted all their legs anyway... why didn't you count the animals instead?

Such a question would better be asked in philosophy class. Besides, the story is, ah, kind of embarrassing. Best let it rest.

[Simmura McCrea]

Let's be honest, if you can't tell the difference between the legs of a chicken and the legs of a horse, you have a bigger problem than how many of each you have.

[PyroDesu]

Okay...

My "Creative" [read: Content] Writing teacher says, yes, I developed a voice in the assignment...

a creepy one.


I'm not sure if this is good or bad...