Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Willfor]

I am done.

I feel like I have to sit down and shut up every time these things that make me want to stop using this forum come up because there is nothing that anyone will accept. I feel like every time I get caught up in a discussion that I actually care about there is a weight of people who are chuckling on the sidelines about the issue, a weight of people who don't want to honestly look at problems, a weight of people who are active apathetic, and that everyone who shares my views has been so beaten down by the discourse that they don't want to engage either.

I am afraid that if I keep trying to engage on these issues that I'm going to be relegated to 'that SJW guy' whenever these topics come up. That when I get close to releasing this roguelike I've been working on for months now that people are going to look at its general inclusivity as a bad thing, and relegate it to the trash heap. Or label me as a developer to avoid because of my general outlook on the way the world works.

Sorry for fucking up your thread.

[Dutchling]

Willfor, if it means anything, you're "that guy who gets pissed when people seem to discredit feminism in general when they're ranting about SJWs" to me :v

(well you would be if that was the only thing you did)

[RedKing]

I'm so sick of SJW in games and in games journalism. They pronounce all sorts of shit like "The end of the gamer" and what not, basically trying to assert that they're winning whatever cultural battle they think they're fighting. Meanwhile, their "no-violence 2d platform rhythm games featuring an all LGBT cast exploring their depressing childhoods" games they fawn over continue to not really make any money.

nenjin, I'm really trying to like you, so please stop using SJW like a 14-year-old truther. 

Got a better word I should be using? Perhaps Social Justice Keyboard Warrior, to distinguish between people who do real activism from people who just talk on the internet? When your job is apparently generating articles for a website to specifically single out games that offend your sense of social values, what other word should I be using?

Also, stop discriminating against 14-year-old bruthers. Relativism, and all that.

It's just irritating when I, for exampe, check out RPS' Sunday papers and the bulk of what they find "interesting" are articles like that. It's not a conversation I find interesting, and I'm struggling to find an indie source of game news that hasn't become consumed by this issue. Imagine your favorite new site or periodical becoming 80% editorial and 20% reporting. That's essentially what it all is. Because editorialzing and getting people worked up in the comments is both easier to do than reporting (or apparently, than playing games and talking about them) and generates more page hits. It's becoming click-bait in the conversation about games.

Sounds like you're less sick of SJW and more sick of them being the popular thing on games websites. Which really isn't their fault, it's the journos (or whatever passes for journalism in the games industry).

It's like blaming the Malaysian Airlines passengers for being all CNN talked about for three months. Or blaming Michael Brown. Granted, I can understand being sick of something drowning out all news everywhere, but it's easy (and wrong) to conflate that with being sick of the thing itself.

[nenjin]

Sorry for fucking up your thread.

S'alright. I brought it up, you had an opinion about my opinion.

FWIW, if you believe in something you're pretty much duty bound to discuss it despite the fact it's unpopular. You're never going to avoid the Peanut Gallery, especially on the internet.

But it should be telling when you, me everyone else, feels fatigue about this issue. Because we are all fatigued from the discussion. I was pretty passionate about it once, but the behavior of the people I'd ostensibly agree with started eroding my support, to the point I don't really want to be associated with them. (Maybe not the same degree I don't want to be associated with the MRA people, but still.)

So I'm just going to revert to my old method of habit. Commenting when I see something sexist in a game, decide whether to it deserves to lose my money because of it, and noting it when I tell others about said game.....rather than making the game a footnote and my complaints about the perceived lack of inequality the primary thing I'm talking about. Which is what I feel like has happened to games journalism. The actual games are a paragraph while why it's "wrong" tends to dominate whole pieces. It's crap. I don't read the Editorials in newspapers for this exact reason.

I'm so sick of SJW in games and in games journalism. They pronounce all sorts of shit like "The end of the gamer" and what not, basically trying to assert that they're winning whatever cultural battle they think they're fighting. Meanwhile, their "no-violence 2d platform rhythm games featuring an all LGBT cast exploring their depressing childhoods" games they fawn over continue to not really make any money.

nenjin, I'm really trying to like you, so please stop using SJW like a 14-year-old truther. 

Got a better word I should be using? Perhaps Social Justice Keyboard Warrior, to distinguish between people who do real activism from people who just talk on the internet? When your job is apparently generating articles for a website to specifically single out games that offend your sense of social values, what other word should I be using?

Also, stop discriminating against 14-year-old bruthers. Relativism, and all that.

It's just irritating when I, for exampe, check out RPS' Sunday papers and the bulk of what they find "interesting" are articles like that. It's not a conversation I find interesting, and I'm struggling to find an indie source of game news that hasn't become consumed by this issue. Imagine your favorite new site or periodical becoming 80% editorial and 20% reporting. That's essentially what it all is. Because editorialzing and getting people worked up in the comments is both easier to do than reporting (or apparently, than playing games and talking about them) and generates more page hits. It's becoming click-bait in the conversation about games.

Sounds like you're less sick of SJW and more sick of them being the popular thing on games websites. Which really isn't their fault, it's the journos (or whatever passes for journalism in the games industry).

It's like blaming the Malaysian Airlines passengers for being all CNN talked about for three months. Or blaming Michael Brown. Granted, I can understand being sick of something drowning out all news everywhere, but it's easy (and wrong) to conflate that with being sick of the thing itself.

Thanks for being more reasonable than I generally can be. It's not that I hate social justice or equality. I'm just sick of the people who are carrying the banner in games journalism right now.

[miauw62]

First "real" day of school, and we already get math homework. Said homework involves rather menial excercises that I could have done at the start of last year, except with one new thing thrown in that was not actually explained at all.

[TamerVirus]

Seeing how SJW and gaming journalism incurred at least 3 locked threads and two Toad bans, perhaps we should move away from this topic?

[nenjin]

That's probably wise.

[Fniff]

That's probably wise.

Well, I just want to say one thing before we end it. I wouldn't like to see Willfor walk away from this unhappy with how it turned out: I've come away from a lot of discussions feeling that way.

*snip*

Disliking SJWs is not the same thing as disliking social rights. I consider myself a feminist and would actually love a game that includes everyone. It's just that I dislike people who use social rights as an excuse to be assholes.

If someone dismisses a developer for wanting to include inclusivity in his own project, that person is an arsehole. Really, we're almost not hating on Social Justice Warriors right now: we're hating on arseholes. If you aren't an arsehole, you are fine. It's all cool.

[Willfor]

Well, I just want to say one thing before we end it. I wouldn't like to see Willfor walk away from this unhappy with how it turned out: I've come away from a lot of discussions feeling that way.

Ended up sending some apologies/comments via PM, regret coming off so harshly, got worked up. Don't really want to keep this going.

[Fniff]

Cool, then let's end it.

[Graknorke]

Realised I have no file paper.

Fuck.

[sjm9876]

I have so much I'd offer to send you some, but paper would probably be more expensive than postage.

Protip: Learn where your college keeps paper. Raid. I have a lifetime supply from the last day at college alone.

[TamerVirus]

Did you just walk into a store room and walk out with handfuls of paper? 

[sjm9876]

.....I pickpocketed a key first.

After that, everyone assume you're on official business, so it's easy going

[Arx]

I can personally attest that walking confidently whilst holding a piece of paper will get you through a disturbing number of checks. Especially if people consider you trustworthy. You can borrow the key if you just make a little effort.