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[Helgoland]

Sounds like a hormones thing.

[Knit tie]

I wish there was some business or service were you could hire a midget to bash someone's face with a baseball bat and then tell them what a piece of crap they were.

I should start this business. [/slowpoke]

I never knew you were a midget, MZ.

[Loud Whispers]

In the UK, by age 16 to 18, girls outperform boys across the board by 10 to 15%. Guys tend to catch up by 21 though...

They've done really badly this year for some reason in 16 - 18. Something something I blame facebook.

[Tawa]

Funnily enough there have been several studies showing that at this point teacher's have done so much affirmative action for girls in lower school grades (making an effort to call on girls, etc.) that we've actually reached the point where they are starting to suggest the opposite, that teachers need to make an effort to focus on guy education in order to ensure that they succeed.

In the UK, by age 16 to 18, girls outperform boys across the board by 10 to 15%. Guys tend to catch up by 21 though...

Don't forget how a large number of high school guys act like lazy idiots, even if they aren't.

At least, that's how it is where I "learn".

So, I have this annoying student teacher who'll be around for a month. She makes us take like twice the number of notes our actual one does. I never even use notes, I just learn the stuff the first time around.

[TD1]

Funnily enough there have been several studies showing that at this point teacher's have done so much affirmative action for girls in lower school grades (making an effort to call on girls, etc.) that we've actually reached the point where they are starting to suggest the opposite, that teachers need to make an effort to focus on guy education in order to ensure that they succeed.

In the UK, by age 16 to 18, girls outperform boys across the board by 10 to 15%. Guys tend to catch up by 21 though...

Don't forget how a large number of high school guys act like lazy idiots, even if they aren't.

At least, that's how it is where I "learn".

So, I have this annoying student teacher who'll be around for a month. She makes us take like twice the number of notes our actual one does. I never even use notes, I just learn the stuff the first time around.

The best teachers I've ever had are men, simply because of their gender and subsequent out-look on life. I'm sure that something similar happens for girls. Majority of teachers are women, however. I only have one male teacher at the minute.

And there will never be true equality, because there's a reason people are split into genders, not just the observable physicality. Women tend  not to be as strong as men. Men tend not to be as flexible as women. This is why women are less likely to be builders, or haulers, and men are less likely to be acrobats. Genders think differently, too. Not alien thoughts, similar, but different.

Equality is a noble pursuit, but based on the principle that the people are originally the same. What should be worked towards in equal opportunity, not the deliberate cultivation of genders in certain areas. If they're good at it, let 'em do it.

[Flying Dice]

Ah, I was wondering when biological essentialism would rear its head. There are a couple fundamental issues with that view.

First, it's a massive generalization, to an outright painful degree, and not even really rooted in good science. A substantial part of the division of labor along gendered lines is fundamentally a social construct, and the bits that aren't are less than relevant to a society with even simple machines. Second, though people arguing for it like to put it in terms of the "men strong, women limber" stereotypes, this is the exact same sort of argument that's been used for centuries to relegate women to homemaking and child care. Hell, less than half a century ago an attorney trying to get elected as a DA ran campaign ads suggesting that his (female) opponent was too nice to be a good DA. It's the exact same reasoning that was used to deny suffrage and employment in business, law, etc. to women, on the grounds of them being naturally suited to other things.

tl;dr: biological essentialism is bullshit used to perpetuate repressive social norms.

[TD1]

How did you get "Repressive" from what I said?

And I'm afraid it is a brute fact. Women and men are different. Do you want me to run through the difference between a man's anatomy and a woman's anatomy? Would you say a cow and a bull are the same? Would you say that women tend to be as tall as, as strong as, men?

There are differences.

[Descan]

The differences between "average man" and "average woman" are nothing compared to the range within the genders you can get. There's no reason to take gender as any indicator of anything.

[miauw62]

Is the average man stronger than the average woman? Probably.

But why is this so? An inherent psychiological difference or merely the fact that men are more socially pressured to be ripped than woman, who are supposed to be thin and fragile?

[TD1]

Is the average man stronger than the average woman? Probably.

But why is this so? An inherent psychiological difference or merely the fact that men are more socially pressured to be ripped than woman, who are supposed to be thin and fragile?

I'd tend to go down the evolution road. Women stayed behind, had children. Men went out, and if they weren't strong they died.

[Tiruin]

Research: What happens at puberty.

I dislike how you state exacts. 'Supposed'?
Really now.

[nenjin]

Guys, seriously. This debate has been going on for several pages now, and I'd rather it be in its own thread. Otherwise it will drag on forever here until it eventually gets moderated.

[Knit tie]

Yes, let's move that discussion to a dedicated thread.

[Tawa]

I'll make it.

Names, anyone?

[Knit tie]

Beards vs. Boobs: Bay12 feminism thread.