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Author Topic: Things that made you RRRRRRAAAAGGGGEEEE today: Trust-o-nomics Edition  (Read 3748727 times)

nenjin

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This article truly made me rage. There's just so much wrong with the approach, and normally I wouldn't care but it's an IP I love and have been waiting to be done right. Instead, it's embracing some really terrible ideas, and basically turning 40k video game players into 40k table top players, by making them pay out the ass for things. Plus, this guy needs a lesson in how to conduct video game interviews.
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Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
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How will I cheese now assholes?
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Dutchling

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It's an Ememo'erpergee, what did you expect?
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Putnam

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psoriasis? i have it too.
I rage because of gases.

No, eczema.

Jopax

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This article truly made me rage. There's just so much wrong with the approach, and normally I wouldn't care but it's an IP I love and have been waiting to be done right. Instead, it's embracing some really terrible ideas, and basically turning 40k video game players into 40k table top players, by making them pay out the ass for things. Plus, this guy needs a lesson in how to conduct video game interviews.

So I'm reading the interview itself that's linked in the article. About halfway trough it.

Honestly, I can't put my finger on it, but this guys sounds like he's full of shit, the way he talks about 40k sounds like he glossed over some sort of summary and is now throwing around names and general relations in the universe to sound like he knows about it, dunno why :S
Also his talk about game mechanics and the economy, what the flying fuck, it's like Molyneux all over again it seems :S
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nenjin

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What really irked me was the statement to the effect of "Everyone knows w/o Space Marines the Imperium would have already fallen."

Now, technically, that's true. However, and this is seemingly the game's biggest disconnect: THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TABLE TOP RULES, TABLE TOP FLUFF, AND 100% FLUFF.

It goes like this. In 100% fluff, 10 Space Marines can take over a planet, fight off 10,000 Orks and basically afraid of nothing. 100% fluff is generally a Space Marine power fantasy because Games Workshop no longer rights fluff for anyone else but Space Marines, Imperial Guard and Chaos. The bulk of 40k fiction is overwhelmingly Space Marine.

In table top fluff, 100 Marines can hold off 200 Orks, lose some guys and possibly lose. This is because Space Marine players need epic stories that highlight their awesomeness over the other races. Read the other race's codices and you'll read about them chopping up Space Marines like they're getting the mail. Or, failing that, they'll just repeatedly pick on Imperial Guard or races that are closer to them in terms of numbers vs. strength. Either way, table top fluff doesn't set up unrealistic expectations because you're going to be fed the harsh reality of the RNG and those two need to align.

In table top rules, a marine is, basically, 20% better than an Ork at, like, triple the cost. A single Ork can kill a single marine with an appreciable margin of success. What they can't do alone, they do by dint of numbers and sheer fire power shifting the odds in their favor. TABLE TOP IS NOT ABOUT A COUPLE GUYS KILLING HUNDREDS, IT'S A NUMBERS GAME ABOUT THE LAW OF AVERAGES. You know who are actually really good in table top? Orks.

And this is the problem. They're speaking about all three things in the same breath and trying to build a game on it. Staying true to the pure fluff and the table rules are, in a sense, mutually exclusive. Games Workshop understands this disconnect, which is why they have different rules for what you say when it comes to different products: table top codices, video games and novels. It's a problem every single 40k game has to resolve.

No Imperial Guard player wants to hear "Yeah your race is actually insignificant in the grand scheme of things." Read the Imperial Guard codices, and they'll say they're the reason the entire Imperium hasn't collapsed yet, not the Space Marines. Read the Chaos, Ork or Tyranid Codices and they'll say victory is inevitable, because they're all so awesome, galaxy-spanning and unstoppable.

Each player of each race values their race above all others. Their fluff, their moments of triumph, their strengths and weaknesses, are all important to why players like the races they do.

These guys seem to be oblivious to that. The watch word at GWS is that Space Marines are what moves units. The truth is, every race has its niche and needs to be treated with a certain level of respect, even races you hate. (Personally, I wish the Tau would just disappear from the universe.) You can't make races subservient to other races, regardless of the popularity of Space Marines. Relic knew it, and it's why the Dawn of War games, for as many things as they do right, basically still boil down to evenly matched forces with like powers and troops. They couldn't hack the balance of the fluff of Space Marines being fair to anyone else, and to date, no one really has. Which is why they made so many Space Marine campaigns with completely different balance and rules than the multiplayer, that was their solution.

So Behavioral Interactive seem to be taking the tact that "Space Marines rule, other races drool" and embracing the ideology from a design standpoint. I.e. the game is probably going to be balanced against Space Marines first and foremost, or balanced for Space Marines. I play Space Marines, personally, but I want more parity than that.

Quote
Also his talk about game mechanics and the economy, what the flying fuck, it's like Molyneux all over again it seems :S

Yeah, Molyneaux-esqe is probably the best way to describe his assumptions about how players will react to these things and behave, and how he's going to build a business model off of that. Worst of all, he's casting all F2P players as essentially dicks and hooligans, setting up the false equivalency that paying = "disciplined and committed" and F2P = "griefing asshole who lack discipline."
« Last Edit: June 15, 2013, 08:23:27 pm by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Sirus

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Not the way I'd refer to them, but yes. Those guys :P
* Sirus is a Tau player
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And lo! Sirus did drive his mighty party truck unto Vegas, and it was good.

Star Wars: Age of Rebellion OOC Thread

Shadow of the Demon Lord - OOC Thread - IC Thread

Akura

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So, I bought this thing to try and get the DVD drive I bought a month or so ago to work, since I thought my computer didn't have to proper plugs and cables.

It came today. The instructions were not really clear, and for a second I thought they had sent me one of those bulky-ass European 250v power plugs to power it(on second inspection, I found the US one had fallen out of the box when I opened it). I kinda figure out where the different plugs go. I turn the computer on, but it doesn't find the DVD drive.

Then, looking at my PC's power supply, I do find a SATA power cord. I look through all the extra stuff my motherboard had when I first built it, and lo and behold, the data cord. Now I don't know what to do with the adapter I bought. Sending it back probably won't be worth it.

I'm kinda with MSH's translated version of Greatorder's thoughts.

On the local news recently there's been a spree of scams going around, perpetrated by the same person each time.  The scammer is a woman in sunglasses.

The scam is that she says that she has a winning florida lotto ticket, but since she is not a legal U.S. Resident she needs money to cash it in.  She had to give the lotto officials 30000 up front to prove she wasn't trying to steal the winnings.  And that she would give the victim 100,000 in return.

On one hand you feel bad for the victim for being scammed, on the other hand you wonder how the hell they didn't know better than to fall for that.
I'm from Florida, and I'll tell you right now, you do not need to bribe the Florida Lottery officials with $30k to get your winnings.

It's $10k, tops.
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Aklyon

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Tau?

The grey-skinned race of bipedal space cows?
I thought they were the dynamic entry guys. :P
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It's known as the Oppai-Kaiju effect. The islands of Japan generate a sort anti-gravity field, which allows breasts to behave as if in microgravity. It's also what allows Godzilla and friends to become 50 stories tall, and lets ninjas run up the side of a skyscraper.

Neonivek

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Ohh dear goodness...

I am watching the most reprehensible movie I ever seen... and I am only watching it in review...

I never actually seen it but I think it is the movie I hate the absolute most.

Which honestly I didn't know whether or not to put here or WTF... cause the thing is... generally speaking it takes a LOT to make me absolutely hate a movie to its bones.

I mean before this the movie I disliked the most was Napolean Dynamite for making fun of people for doing or saying things I have done or said... making it feel like a movie that is mean spiritedly making fun of me.

Yet dear goodness this movie...
« Last Edit: June 15, 2013, 09:37:11 pm by Neonivek »
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Graknorke

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Transformers?
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Neonivek

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Transformers?

No it was Project X. Someone just did an internet review on it... and Honestly I never actually felt blinding rage towards a movie before.

Though given that it features people drugging drunk high school students with hardcore drugs...

I am just watching clips and I feel terrible for having watched it.
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Graknorke

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Transformers?

No it was Project X. Someone just did an internet review on it... and Honestly I never actually felt blinding rage towards a movie before.

Though given that it features people drugging drunk high school students with hardcore drugs...

I am just watching clips and I feel terrible for having watched it.
After reading Wikipedia it doesn't seem rage-inducingly bad. Just regular bad.
Then again, I can't think of much that I would consider it being appropriate to rage over.
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Neonivek

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It isn't, I just let my suspension of disbelief slide.

Just suffice it to say that I have this internal mechanism where I feel for characters in shows and movies and once it triggers, it cannot be funny no matter how hard it tried.

This movie triggered that response where I started to feel like these characters are honestly being hurt and mishandled and the movie just continued and considered this a "good thing".

The last time this triggered so strongly I was watching someone pretend to be Richard Simmons during a "We make your dreams come true" (I don't know its official name) parody where this woman who had many children and lost more of her eye sight was constantly heckled and abused by Simmons and I felt SO sorry for her that it just wasn't funny. I actually wanted to cry because I just wanted the show to stop. I know exactly why the show wanted me to laugh, but... no.
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Skyrunner

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RAGGHH D:< My A* pathfinding algorithm doesn't work, even though I essentially copy-pasted a working version from a different file!


Cruisin' through the dunes... on a caravel... with sails and stuff. Because who cares about little things like friction when you're on a BOAT.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2013, 10:28:46 pm by Skyrunner »
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"Oh, they never lie. They dissemble, evade, prevaricate, confoud, confuse, distract, obscure, subtly misrepresent and willfully misunderstand with what often appears to be a positively gleeful relish ... but they never lie" -- Look To Windward

Mego

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GRAH! Skyrim on Xbox 360 is so buggy... I've killed 2 Word Wall dragons now, and I don't get their souls. I can instead clip right through them.

GRAH! NEED MORE SOULS FOR MORE SHOUTS!
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