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[penguinofhonor]

So if the car was not moving at a speed that would have killed an ordinary person, it shouldn't count as manslaughter? If not, I'm not seeing your point.

And even if they're different, my point still stands that punishment is very often based on the result of the action in addition to the intent. See attempted murder charges versus actual murder charges. The intent and chance of death can be completely identical in both cases, but actual murder gets punished much more harshly because there was much more harm done.

[Neonivek]

but actual murder gets punished much more harshly because there was much more harm done.

Ohh no, you should actually look at the law. Attempted murder can get you longer sentences then second degree murder and as long as first degree.

As well the law distinguishes between "Criminal action" and an ordinary action. Throwing your Mattress onto the street resulting in someone's death is reasonable.

Suicide, to me at least, is not a reasonable result.

[penguinofhonor]

Uh... I might have to then. Is it actually enforced that way?

[Neonivek]

Uh... I might have to then. Is it actually enforced that way?

From what I read, yes for the minimums.

I have no idea how the law is enforced as that would involve me looking up case history.

Mind you it makes perfect sense. You attempted to murder someone, which is just as bad as if you murdered them.

Though I think for first offenders who didn't actually harm the person, they might be more lenient for the sake of restitution (Punishment for punishment sake tends to be wasted effort)

[Flying Dice]

Neo, the thing you're missing is that the rapists (the people who would actually have charges brought against them) ARE criminals and most certainly acted with malicious intent. Unless you want to suggest that they accidentally gang-raped a minor and spread photographs of it around online. (Note: I don't think you are. I sincerely hope that you aren't.) At the very least there's the child pornography angle, even if the RCMP are too incompetent to get a conviction on the rape charges.


The people who bullied the poor girl over it were like the friends who urge that drunken person to drive home: they aren't criminally culpable, but they still bear some level of responsibility for the end result. That aside, the intent on all sides was clearly to cause substantial psychological harm. Unless you'd care to suggest an alternate reason for all of that, beyond the bullshit copout of "kids will be kids".

[penguinofhonor]

I don't think Neonivek is talking about punishment for the rape, just for her death. As in, in addition to the charges for raping her and distributing her photos.

[Max White]

Neo, the thing you're missing is that the rapists (the people who would actually have charges brought against them) ARE criminals and most certainly acted with malicious intent. Unless you want to suggest that they accidentally gang-raped a minor and spread photographs of it around online. (Note: I don't think you are. I sincerely hope that you aren't.) At the very least there's the child pornography angle, even if the RCMP are too incompetent to get a conviction on the rape charges.

Nobody is trying to argue against both rape and child pornography charges. Heck if there are any more that can be legitimately added on, go for it!
But if this girl hadn't commit suicide, a lot less people would be calling for the long, painful torture of these boys.

[Neonivek]

Neo, the thing you're missing is that the rapists (the people who would actually have charges brought against them) ARE criminals and most certainly acted with malicious intent. Unless you want to suggest that they accidentally gang-raped a minor and spread photographs of it around online. (Note: I don't think you are. I sincerely hope that you aren't.) At the very least there's the child pornography angle, even if the RCMP are too incompetent to get a conviction on the rape charges.

Hey, they don't need this suddenly turning into Second Degree Murder charges. Aggravated Rape and I have no idea what the other charges is... Is certainly a long enough sentence and frankly they are the ones I have the most scorn for and the ones I'd argue the least for the whole "She committed suicide you monsters!" aspect since at least they did do something really aggravated.

As for Rape charges the problem with rape is that it is kind of hard to prove. For one because "He said, she said" and that you cannot take someone's word for it... but also because of phenomena that I scratch my head around which I call "Post-sex rape" or rather someone taking an experience as rape after the fact. It is terrible but I cannot think of a solution. (Before you jump on me... YES I think this was a rape)

As for the second group of people I think they are going to get their level of responsibility quite handily from the people around them... I am genuinely scared for them though.

---

I will say I keep trying to find what percent of rape victims commit suicide and dear goodness I cannot even find this statistic. Certainly a lot of them have thoughts about suicide (66%) but I cannot find much else.

[PanH]

It's sad that she has to suicide for the case to draw attention (I'm not saying that she did it for that reason).

[Neonivek]

It's sad that she has to suicide for the case to draw attention (I'm not saying that she did it for that reason).

She really didn't but the thing about depression is you don't always think or react rationally to the situation.

Yes, she could have got the faculty involved, she could have sought out a councilor, spoken to someone close to her... Many things.

Yet when you are in the mindset that you are worthless and that no one cares... You won't think of those solutions.

[Sirus]

At the very least there's the child pornography angle, even if the RCMP are too incompetent to get a conviction on the rape charges.

I've been quiet on the last couple of topics, but I have something to ask:

The girl who was raped was 17, right? Depending on her state, it might not qualify as "child pornography" anymore. Unless I'm confusing age of consent (which I know varies from state to state) with not being a minor anymore.
That's all I wanted to say. The assholes who did it are still scum and should be punished for what they did, IMHO.

[Mr Space Cat]

This.

...da faq. So, there's people who do this, then share the pictures online...and everyone at the school finds out and nag and harass said girl for the images. Whether they bothered to gather more information or were content to say "hurr porn i'mma fap to dis hurr" and then heckle the girl, either way, the students who did that are pricks. Major pricks.

Spoiler: I can't even fathom this...massive example of douchery and assery. (click to show/hide)

Those guys actually pissed Anonymous off, that's when you know you dun goofed. They're gonna get what's coming to them. No PSN account is safe.

[Scelly9]

I believe she was 15 when raped, and committed suicide at 17.

[Sirus]

Ah. Okay, yeah. I'm pretty sure that's a minor all over the country.

Back to your RAAAAGE.

[Neonivek]

Ah. Okay, yeah. I'm pretty sure that's a minor all over the country.

Back to your RAAAAGE.

Yeah the weirdest law in the US is that you can be in a porn at a younger age then you can watch one.