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[scriver]

Not to mention the game companies themselves. When the stuff they put in to "protect" their game actively encourages piracy, then you're doing something very wrong.

[sonerohi]

Took Medeival 2 Total War out today, decided to do the long campaign as the HRE. By turn thirty I have 21 settlements, but all of my lords and generals are occupying the border settlements because every single fucking one of my neighbors is at war with me no matter how I try to appease the stupid as fuck AI. Fucking Sicily wanted four settlements and 30,000 gold to make peace, fuck that noise. I finally get my settlements all happy and growing again after being excommunicated (I killed the pope and took over Rome, big fucking deal) when all of a sudden the Moors come out of nowhere and kill 3 of my generals and sack the settlements.

[WhiskerMeister]

As an econ professor of mine used to say, there is no such thing as a free lunch.

Even if data can be duplicated without "cost", there are "costs." Someone has to pay for the bandwidth. The PC that does the copying. The internet that provides the transfer. You can argue there's no additional cost to the company from which you copy, but there ARE costs involved. You cannot talk piracy without acknowledging that, somewhere along the line, SOMETHING has to be paid for.

And since teenagers don't pay for their own PCs or their own bills, they're basically the top parasite of the system.

I won't cry for the lost dollars of most game developers....but pirates arguing what they do costs no one nothing is totally short sighted, and untrue.

well, assume the existence of an unemployed teenager. this teenager is legally unable to attain a job, and furthermore has no allotted allowance or income or what-have-you. he does however have a PC and internet access (which, by the way, is a flat cost -- most ISPs don't charge by bandwidth usage and individual KB have no cost associated with them at all); it is thus impossible for this theoretical teenager to pay for anything. if he downloads something and doesn't pay for it, with no possibility of ever paying for it, there is no cost to anyone at all, neither the developer nor the teenager nor the ISP. pushing bits across the tubes isn't a 'cost' because more network utilization does not mean higher operating costs.

at the very least, the 'cost' of piracy in this idealized situation is so small as to be negligible. we're talking fractions of a cent, here.

[nenjin]

at the very least, the 'cost' of piracy in this idealized situation is so small as to be negligible. we're talking fractions of a cent, here.

Fractions of a cent...per person. Multiple it by several million users, and you have....several million fractions of a cent.

well, assume the existence of an unemployed teenager.....

I started working at 14, legally, doing everything from detassleing corn to excavating archeological sites. Teenagers can cry me a river, or get a job. Video games aren't food, no one forgives you because you're unable to afford entertainment.

[Realmfighter]

So, several thousand fractions of a dollar for the entire world.

Thats not even enough to ruin a middle class family.

[nenjin]

Per individual title. Per week. Per month. Per year. It adds up. That's all the cost represented by just free loading.

I say this as someone that pirates. But I don't make the claim I'm doing no harm or that it costs nothing. Only a completely self-centered individual with zero life experience would make that claim.

I.e., teenagers.

[Leafsnail]

Lots of people are prepared to argue against piracy and say it'll cause the collapse of society or whatever.  Then they go and do it anyway.  It seems like quite a selfish position to take - "You pay for the games, I'll get em free".

[Realmfighter]

Myself, i just say that i don't know if i cause harm or not, but either way i could not give less of a shit.

[nenjin]

At least I pay for games at some point. When there are people asking how to pirate a $10 game off of Steam they that must have, but refuse to pony up even that much for, I get annoyed. It's not about whether you pirate or not period. It's about whether you PAY or not at any point.

The group that never seems willing to pay is, shockingly, the group most likely to pirate. I try to balance out how much I pirate by either purchasing the games I enjoyed, or giving my money to some new products that come out.

Myself, i just say that i don't know if i cause harm or not, but either way i could not give less of a shit.

This is sort of what I'm talking about. People do stuff without even owning up to what they're doing.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Some pirates really tick me off, those that act like they deserve the games for free more than any other. It reminds me of how some homeless/very low income theives will justify stealing luxury items because they don't have them. So. Damn. Enraging.

[WhiskerMeister]

Myself, i just say that i don't know if i cause harm or not, but either way i could not give less of a shit.

that kind of sums up my opinion, i guess? fundamentally i think supporting developers is a pretty cool thing to do, but it's ultimately secondary to my enjoyment of their product. i mean, if you ask me if i want to have fun with zero possible repercussions, i'm going to say yes, clearly. i'll buy games from indie devs that i enjoy, like most of introversion's stuff. stuff from large publishers though, i wouldn't even consider purchasing.

[smigenboger]

I don't want to derail the thread, but I will anyway. Doesn't piracy balance out the costs by giving you +1 product, or +1 money you would have spent on it?

If you had $10 in general dickery funds, and you pirated a $10 discography, the money that would of been spent could go to either other entertainment purposes, or something like fast food.

So the pirating act went
+- 0 for the pirate, for lack of a better word, victim
+$10 the Coca-Cola company and McDonald's

[Armok]

if you're going to talk global and general things you have to take into account that money is just a made up number determining WHO gets value, and that the economy is not a zero sum game. What matter is how much value is CREATED.

[nenjin]

The more I read these justifications for piracy, the more it reads as "I don't have real responsibilities, so why should I feel responsible for anything?"

[Josephus]

All of you should get a job.

Especially you, Armok.