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[SalmonGod]

I'm pretty certain at this point that I am completely immune to whatever it is that most people call "heavy-handedness".  I've learned to recognize what other people mean by it, but I don't feel it the way other people do.  In the case of Avatar, the things that make other people describe it as heavy-handed only make me feel that it was passionate about making its point, which I can actually appreciate.  I'd rather people tell stories about things that they feel strongly about than just... tell stories without a point... or tack a very badly thought out or shallow point onto something just for the sake of avoiding complete pointlessness, like most mainstream/summer-blockbuster type things that are watered down for the best mass appeal possible which means saying things that everybody agrees with which is absolutely pointless storytelling.  Yes I stopped caring about grammar.

And Avatar's point is definitely one that deserves shitloads of reiteration, because it describes a thing that continues to happen and goes mostly ignored in the real world, even today.

[10ebbor10]

Best thing I can say about Avatar is Cameron actually got Dr. Pellegrino to make a realistic design for the ISV Venture Star, the ship at the beginning.

That's about where scientific accuracy ends in the thing.

Calling the ISV venture star realistic is a bit much. While the underlying design is at least a bit possible, it's has problems with the orders of magnitude of energy it's using.* In fact, In a way you could say that Star Trek's warp drive system is more realistic. (Though not really).

*Though I do appreciate the effort, I really do. It's just that when you run the numbers the whole thing falls apart.

For example, during it's primary arceleration phase the ISV uses more than 225000 Terrawat of incoming laser energy. (Earth(2008) uses 15 terrawat).

[Max White]

GOD DAMMIT GOOGLE YOU DON'T NEED TO CHANGE EVERYTHING ALL THE TIME ALWAYS FOR NO REASON!!!!!!!!!
Can't find my youtube inbox. Why is it hidden so?

[PyroDesu]

Best thing I can say about Avatar is Cameron actually got Dr. Pellegrino to make a realistic design for the ISV Venture Star, the ship at the beginning.

That's about where scientific accuracy ends in the thing.

Calling the ISV venture star realistic is a bit much. While the underlying design is at least a bit possible, it's has problems with the orders of magnitude of energy it's using.* In fact, In a way you could say that Star Trek's warp drive system is more realistic. (Though not really).

*Though I do appreciate the effort, I really do. It's just that when you run the numbers the whole thing falls apart.

For example, during it's primary arceleration phase the ISV uses more than 225000 Terrawat of incoming laser energy. (Earth(2008) uses 15 terrawat).

Point, but the design itself is plausible. Energy requirements are insane, but the whole thing about using a laser battery like that is actually a decent idea, as is most of the rest of it. Plausible, could work in reality, but way, way, out of our reach in such things as energy requirements. I mean, the whole laser thing isn't as bad as the fact that those engines are matter-antimatter. Think of how much energy you'd need to make enough antimatter to fill those things twice, for one round-trip.

[miauw62]

*shrug* Nuclear fusion? I remember the thing to be pretty huge, so you could fit one of those things in there. Mayby more.
Ofcourse, there is still no way you're going to make that much energy.

[Frumple]

I'm pretty certain at this point that I am completely immune to whatever it is that most people call "heavy-handedness".  I've learned to recognize what other people mean by it, but I don't feel it the way other people do.  In the case of Avatar, the things that make other people describe it as heavy-handed only make me feel that it was passionate about making its point, which I can actually appreciate.

I... I think heavy-handedness in this point means more like... clumsy. Kinda' like stepping into a story and seeing it's a Dances with Wolves/Smurfs crossover fanfic... set in SPAAAACE. That then just kinda' ham-handedly throws the plot points around and has kinda' unimpressive grammar and maybe fucks up world-building in places or something because dude, dude, you have to see this AWESOME THING! I can conditionally appreciate passion (when it doesn't get in the way of actually accomplishing what you're passionate about, anyway), but from what people who actually remember DwWs mention, Avatar's apparently about a skip and a jump from somewhat clumsy plagiarism.

Point being that maybe the point's a good point (I'd probably say it is), but if the expression of the point is distracting it can take away from things. E: Thinking on an analogy, I'd say it's sorta' like watching someone incredibly drunk attempt a symbolic fan dance or something (pick any physical expression that's supposed to be meaning laden when properly performed); you might get the message anyway but it's not going to be as clear or as meaningful as someone capable actually doing it sober.

Though personally, the whole social integration thing or whatever completely missed me. I didn't really get that out of the film, possibly because I internalized the sentiment when I was like six, I'unno. I was distracted by parts of the movie that were mind-bogglingly stupid (mainly techy parts, or areas where someone did something that incredibly poorly reasoned on a tactical/strategic level or something. Incompetent villains turn me off nowadays ).

Pretty but stupid is my one-line description for that movie.

[Aklyon]

So, I see that theres a Fences update. Sounds interesting. So I let it update, and find out that its not as much 'update' as it is 'turn into a free trial'. Goddamnit, Stardock.

Back to fences 1.01 I go, I'm not paying for a cosmetics upgrade with a couple extra features when it works perfectly fine as-is.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I continue to maintain that Colonel Quaritch is the real hero of Avatar and that Jake Sully is a villain protagonist. Violent, theocratic space elves vs. humanity, who tried to be reasonable about acquiring something our civilization needs to survive but where then randomly and lethally rebuked by their plant god? I know who's side I'm on.

[kaijyuu]

Both sides in Avatar are dicks, but the space elves are reactionary dicks. They didn't "strike first," so to speak.

Now, "he started it" isn't an excuse for anything. I really couldn't root for one side or the other during the war on screen. But if we're looking at things from a broad perspective, I'd say the space elves were on the (most) morally correct side.

Colonel Quaritch was just doing his job, so I don't consider him particularly villainous. He shows some of the negative attributes that military service teaches you (like lack of anything resembling empathy for the enemy), but beyond that, I only recall one line of his that reflected badly on his character: Telling Jake to "wake up." He was speaking from an ideological perspective there (and of course the irony with the Avatars being controlled in one's sleep). Quit assuming that radical views are inherently delusional, douchebag.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

The space elves did strike first though! The RDA opened negotiations and everything until the space elves' plant god started telling them to attack the RDA because they were after the Unobtanium. The unobtanium that is needed for room-temperature superconduction and FTL, a necessity for keeping Earth's population alive in its current state.

Plant god is an unreasonable jackass who can order the space elves to do pretty much anything. Quaritch having resentment towards the space elves is pretty reasonable considering they're out to kill his soldiers directly and his species indirectly for (seemingly) no reason whatsoever. Even if he had known the reason, plant god is still a homicidal dick.

Quaritch makes an excellent point in the same scene he tells Jake to wake up: Jake had his chance, he had months to convince the space elves to negotiate for the unobtanium or even just a ceasefire, but got nowhere. The space elves weren't interested in peace and humanity couldn't do without the unobtanium. The only realistic option in such a situation is war.

[Darvi]

You make it sound like DF IN SPACE.

[Aklyon]

You forgot to mention that the Unobtainium is also absurdly valuable as just something to sell too.

[Xantalos]

QUARITCH FOR THE WIN
Now with that out of the way, a rock selling for $20 MILLION per kilo would have most countries happily genociding in a heartbeat.

[Loud Whispers]

-snip-

Sounds like Terra needs a new Admiral in recruiting, because I have a sudden urge to commit deicide. Congratulations.

[SalmonGod]

The space elves did strike first though! The RDA opened negotiations and everything until the space elves' plant god started telling them to attack the RDA because they were after the Unobtanium. The unobtanium that is needed for room-temperature superconduction and FTL, a necessity for keeping Earth's population alive in its current state.

Plant god is an unreasonable jackass who can order the space elves to do pretty much anything. Quaritch having resentment towards the space elves is pretty reasonable considering they're out to kill his soldiers directly and his species indirectly for (seemingly) no reason whatsoever. Even if he had known the reason, plant god is still a homicidal dick.

Quaritch makes an excellent point in the same scene he tells Jake to wake up: Jake had his chance, he had months to convince the space elves to negotiate for the unobtanium or even just a ceasefire, but got nowhere. The space elves weren't interested in peace and humanity couldn't do without the unobtanium. The only realistic option in such a situation is war.

Umm... IIRC, mining the unobtanium also involved ripping the heart out of the plant god and destroying space elven society.  "Negotiations" in this case almost certainly amounted to warning the space elves that if they didn't abandon their home and everything they believed in that they would be destroyed.  Unless I'm missing some core information here, I think space elves were acting in legitimate self-defense.  This is also basically how it's played out every in single encounter between indigenous and modern civilizations throughout history, except in reality it's more like "we have to expand and you're in the way" instead of "earth's fate depends on this stuff and you're sitting on it".  This is currently playing out heavily in South America, especially with that huge damn they're building in Brazil.