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[Armok]

City as a whole gains something from it, by reducing congestion, therefore all citizens gain something (if you've ever tried parking your car in city centre, you'll know what I'm talking about). Subsidies and competition aren't mutually exclusive, mind you - just grant the subsidy to the private company that offers the lowest price. Subsidies are needed to make buses more attractive than cars, so people use cars less.

Ah, but if the purpose of your subsidy is to make buses more attractive than cars, then you concede that cars are more attractive than buses by default. However you also say that parking is expensive, and the traffic problems congest the city streets. So clearly buses are more attractive than cars within certain parameters, and I say let a business fill the need of people who would prefer to take a bus, rather than have the city operate the buses. Private taxi companies do this already, after all. If cities were subsidizing their bus line with taxpayer dollars, it could be possible to compete with the city line as a private industry.

Ergo, do what Stockholm did.

[Andir]

Ergo, do what Stockholm did.

Lock everyone in a bus until they start liking it?

Edit: Sorry, I'm in a happy mood being Friday and all.

[nenjin]

You're never going to make people like dealing with people. That's the whole reason the bus still gets stigmatized. I've been riding the bus for.....probably 5 years now. (Gave up driving for a while.) I always can spot new people on the bus because they're always looking at everyone else like ".....please don't try to talk me to me, please don't try to talk to me, ear buds in, lalalalalalalalala"

[Grakelin]

I was waiting at the bus stop the other day, and there was this attractive woman sitting next to me. I didn't know whether it was okay to talk to her, though, because it was 3:30, and that meant there was a good chance she was jailbait.

[nenjin]

and that meant there was a good chance she was jailbait.

Lol, I know what you mean. It's 5:00 here at the main city bus stop.

I can't blame people for stygmatizing the bus sometimes because of that....at 5:00 downtown, it's like a Hip-hop/Metal/Punk show, complete with cops on a regular basis.

[Andir]

You're never going to make people like dealing with people. That's the whole reason the bus still gets stigmatized. I've been riding the bus for.....probably 5 years now. (Gave up driving for a while.) I always can spot new people on the bus because they're always looking at everyone else like ".....please don't try to talk me to me, please don't try to talk to me, ear buds in, lalalalalalalalala"

Stockholm Syndrome is where I was going with that.

[Eagleon]

1:Your implied disdain for people on unemployment benefits is misguided. In order to qualify (at least in Michigan) you must have held a full time job within a certain time frame beforehand; and held it for I think at least 6 months and to have lost your job through no fault of your own, IE the company fails or downsizes. This is also I think about 2/3s of whatever you made at your last job. If "Joe Dropout" was being paid minimum wage at his last full time job, and "Joe McFactory" made $30 an hour operating heavy machinery before being laid off through no fault of his own, "Mcfactory" is actually taking much more of your taxes than the dropout. The same goes for "Joe McMastersinbusiness." Wisconsin could have a system that is vastly different I suppose, but Michigan's really isn't heavily geared towards benefiting the poor, uneducated, or lazy over the wealthy, learned, or industrious. Even if it's on a sliding scale, the scale would have to be extreme for the benefits to scale dishonestly as your former wages become lower.

Woah, now. I didn't even mention unemployment benefits. I'm a janitor - I make $9 an hour, and I'm happy with my life. Sorry this wasn't clear - I'm being entirely sarcastic, as I qualify completely as 'Joe Dropout' in a way. My education is going towards my own private interests, and I fully intend to work physical jobs as long as is feasible to balance out the fact that I spend all my free time sitting on my ass writing and programming. This means I don't make a hell of a lot, as I said in my first post.

Not complaining mind you. I could make three times as much working an office job. It'd just drive me batshit insane.

He's not saying private solutions are destroying mass transit; he's saying private solutions are destroying state-funded mass transit, so why are city and local governments even bothering?

I'm not giving an opinion, just trying to clarify his, since you seemed to be hot to spot a contradiction.

I'm actually saying that the lower class is vital to Milwaukee's manufacturing- and service-oriented economy, and that they will move elsewhere if they have no viable solution to get to work. Hell, I'm moving south to Racine next Thursday, though that has more to do with the fact that I've been staying temporarily with my brother and I have three responsible roommates with benefits waiting, hehe. As I said, private solutions have not materialized that are any cheaper than the bus, which is becoming a fairly large problem for people at my income level (by choice or by force)

In simplest terms, I believe that Milwaukee's voting base (unfortunately mostly middle to upper-class) is shooting themselves in the foot by not supporting better funding for transit, though I can hardly blame them with how many other issues there are to take care of in the area.

[Leafsnail]

I'd like to point out that privatisation is NOT a panacea.  The British rail system has got a lot worse since being privatised, and in our area the (privately operated) bus system is just... ugh.

I didn't know whether it was okay to talk to her, though, because it was 3:30, and that meant there was a good chance she was jailbait.

Your area bans you from talking to underage people? 

[Grakelin]

You know exactly what I meant.

Also, high school girls have this bad habit of lying about their age.

[Nikov]

You know exactly what I meant.

Also, high school girls have this bad habit of lying about their age.

Its so wierd. Everyone acts like any form of romantic contact with the opposite sex ends in... sex. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I think its possible to date a really smoking hot babe until its socially acceptable to bang her, ie, she's your wife.

[Duuvian]

You know exactly what I meant.

Also, high school girls have this bad habit of lying about their age.

Its so wierd. Everyone acts like any form of romantic contact with the opposite sex ends in... sex. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I think its possible to date a really smoking hot babe until its socially acceptable to bang her, ie, she's your wife.

Yeah, that's acceptable to me, as well as not waiting until marriage. Not everyone feels you have to be married to bang another willing person that is legal age for whatever age you might be though, so I'd argue that it depends on the individual's opinion whether or not it's acceptable to themselves and more importantly a good decision.

1:Your implied disdain for people on unemployment benefits is misguided. In order to qualify (at least in Michigan) you must have held a full time job within a certain time frame beforehand; and held it for I think at least 6 months and to have lost your job through no fault of your own, IE the company fails or downsizes. This is also I think about 2/3s of whatever you made at your last job. If "Joe Dropout" was being paid minimum wage at his last full time job, and "Joe McFactory" made $30 an hour operating heavy machinery before being laid off through no fault of his own, "Mcfactory" is actually taking much more of your taxes than the dropout. The same goes for "Joe McMastersinbusiness." Wisconsin could have a system that is vastly different I suppose, but Michigan's really isn't heavily geared towards benefiting the poor, uneducated, or lazy over the wealthy, learned, or industrious. Even if it's on a sliding scale, the scale would have to be extreme for the benefits to scale dishonestly as your former wages become lower.

Woah, now. I didn't even mention unemployment benefits. I'm a janitor - I make $9 an hour, and I'm happy with my life. Sorry this wasn't clear - I'm being entirely sarcastic, as I qualify completely as 'Joe Dropout' in a way. My education is going towards my own private interests, and I fully intend to work physical jobs as long as is feasible to balance out the fact that I spend all my free time sitting on my ass writing and programming. This means I don't make a hell of a lot, as I said in my first post.

Not complaining mind you. I could make three times as much working an office job. It'd just drive me batshit insane.

I feel you on that one. Sorry for going off on the rant, I thought unemployment benefits was implied. I used to have to Janitor at a campground with about a hundred cabins. Basically I went from cabin to cabin and cleaned shit off 100 toilets a day for the couple weeks I lasted there. Best job I've ever had was driving pizzas around.

[AtomicPaperclip]

Perhaps the root problem is the society and the technology itself.

[Kadzar]

I have three responsible roommates with benefits waiting, hehe.

I don't mean to get this thread off topic, but what exactly does this mean? Because the only way I can think to interpret it is that you have three fuck buddies.

[Duuvian]

That's what I got from that also. I assume he is too busy to type now.

[Eagleon]

I have three responsible roommates with benefits waiting, hehe.

I don't mean to get this thread off topic, but what exactly does this mean? Because the only way I can think to interpret it is that you have three fuck buddies.

Relationship status: Complicated.

Seriously, not the best place to discuss polyamory or my personal sex life It was a better explanation for the circumstances of my move than "I don't like it here", nothing else. I tend to get a little verbose if you hadn't noticed, and possess an utter lack of shame, so it was an "eh, why not?" thing to include.