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[Aqizzar]

I like the 2D drawn Disney movies because they always had the best villain songs. I still occasionally catch myself singing Hellfire.

I like to sing the Gaston song.

Here we come, we're fifty strong, and fifty Frenchmen can't be wrong...  I find myself humming The Mob Song at work all the time.  And I love it.

As far as animation quality goes, while I prefer the smoothness of American animation, I can certainly respect the massive cost-savings of the Japanese method.  And the low-framerate quick-change effect has it's own appeal - just watch Family Guy sometime, and notice how many good visual gags rely on one-frame alterations.

[Kogan Loloklam]

And the point is, Japanese Animation(which is currently being ripped off by American animation) is just American Animation. The entire "culture" is made up by Americans, Adopted by the Japanese, and taken by the Americans.

[kuro_suna]

Their are lots of Japanese animations with good quality and frame rate, you just can't compare a movie to a 26 episode tv series since they can easily have the same production budget.

[kuro_suna]

And the point is, Japanese Animation(which is currently being ripped off by American animation) is just American Animation. The entire "culture" is made up by Americans, Adopted by the Japanese, and taken by the Americans.

Though it seems like American animation decayed quite a bit until they started losing business to Japan, especially the writing.

For example compare the first "Land before time" and "All dog go to heaven" to their sequels.

[Sir Pseudonymous]

And the point is, Japanese Animation(which is currently being ripped off by American animation) is just American Animation. The entire "culture" is made up by Americans, Adopted by the Japanese, and taken by the Americans.

Though it seems like American animation decayed quite a bit until they started losing business to Japan, especially the writing.

For example compare the first "Land before time" and "All dog go to heaven" to their sequels.

Those are made for children though, and children don't give a shit if they're watching crap.

[Footkerchief]

Though it seems like American animation decayed quite a bit until they started losing business to Japan, especially the writing.

For example compare the first "Land before time" and "All dog go to heaven" to their sequels.

I wouldn't call that a decay in animation per se.  It has more to do with the copyright holders hiring second-tier studios to churn out sequels for the straight-to-video market.  As far as I know, animated feature films didn't decay during that period (early 90s).

[sonerohi]

I like the 2D drawn Disney movies because they always had the best villain songs. I still occasionally catch myself singing Hellfire.

I like to sing the Gaston song.

Here we come, we're fifty strong, and fifty Frenchmen can't be wrong...  I find myself humming The Mob Song at work all the time.  And I love it.

As far as animation quality goes, while I prefer the smoothness of American animation, I can certainly respect the massive cost-savings of the Japanese method.  And the low-framerate quick-change effect has it's own appeal - just watch Family Guy sometime, and notice how many good visual gags rely on one-frame alterations.

I just found two CDs that contain all the music for Lion King 1 & 2. I'm in some state far beyond ecstasy and euphoria and bliss. Escphorbliss.

[Cthulhu]

And the point is, Japanese Animation(which is currently being ripped off by American animation) is just American Animation. The entire "culture" is made up by Americans, Adopted by the Japanese, and taken by the Americans.

That gives me an awesome idea.  I'm going to start a country called Meld Innovations, or maybe Synergy Innovations.  We're going to flood small countries with American culture, wait twenty years, and then come back, see what they've turned it into, and import it back to the States as the Next Big Thing.  Soon instead of Weeaboos we'll have Latviboos, Somaliboos, Turkmeniboos; you name it, man.

[MrWiggles]

I dont get the statement that American animation is ripping off Japanese animation. oO

Teen Titans is probably going to be a titular example. Though I can name its genre, I cant think of a show or studio, or author as its chief inspiration. Its action scene are also american. Since the US have less pretensions on violence, they dont have to resort to the shaded freeze frame to imply the action. It defiantly has inspiration from shonen anime and the over exzergation of the facial feature from shujou.

There  is Avatar: The Last Airbender, which occasionally uses the over exzageration of the facial features. It has a series of chibi fun shorts. It defiantly has anime influences, I would simply be repeating myself from what I said about Teen Titans.

There various bits of western animation which are popular, and good that dont have any obvert anime influences. Off the top of my head, there are; Fabulous Misadventures of Flapjack, Chowder, Adventure Time!, Real Drama franchise, Foster Home for Imaginary Friends, Harvey Bird-Man: Attorney At Law, Invader Zim, Archer, South Park, American Citzens (I think that the right name.), Family Guy (and the others done by the same production studio) and King of the Hill.

This isn't listing the animations of average quality, such as Batman: The Brave and The Bold and the new X-Men Wolverine.

[Sinistar]

DBZ isnt childish. DB is though.

Just to clarify: I never watched DBZ and only one or two episodes of DB. This was more of a comment people, not interested in anime, would probably say about DBZ after watching a single ep. If that makes sense.

[Aqizzar]

For example compare the first "Land before time" and "All dog go to heaven" to their sequels.

Those are made for children though, and children don't give a shit if they're watching crap.

Footkerchief hit one good point, mentioning that many animated-series sequels are produced by completely different teams to churn out home-video sales.  I add two points to that - We just spent a good chunk of the thread reminiscing about all the awesome animation from the 80s and early 90s, and there was plenty of it, before anime suddenly stormed the market.  Those of us who remember it were certainly children then, and we certainly knew crap from non-crap, that's why we reminisce about stuff.

My other point is that "Land Before Time" was dumb and "All Dogs Go To Heaven" was frighteningly bizarre without actually being any good.

[MrWiggles]

DBZ isnt childish. DB is though.

Just to clarify: I never watched DBZ and only one or two episodes of DB. This was more of a comment people, not interested in anime, would probably say about DBZ after watching a single ep. If that makes sense.

If you even want to see THE example of Shonen animation Dragonball would be it.  DB is childish. They sent a rabbit mob boss to live on the moon, who had the ability to turn those he touched into carrots.  You wont find that in the later DBZ series. As it went from a fantasy action adventure cartoon with fair bits of goofy, to a science fiction action adventure cartoon where genocide was outcome for battles. And the battles were depicted were much harsher then in DB. As it audience target changed from young kids to mid teens and young adult. During the boo saga, you'll find some of the goofy back. With Boo turning persons into candy. Though Akira uses this to illustrate the immature personality that Boo had. Through the series you'll find repeating the theme of redemption. You'll find name puns. It will tug at the heart strings, and get you caught up in the drama of the story.  After watching DB then watching Z for the first time when Goku went to go fight Freeza it had a renewed impact with me. I was bummed the first time when Krillian was just up and killed, but after watching Krillian and Goku friendship start when they're about 12, you understood why that was such as an emotional impact on Goku that caused him reach that new plain . It was just utter rage, and sadness.  And you'll have no doubt that Akira Toriyama cannot draw at all.

DBZ is my favorite carton series. It does have issues. Though I've been watching the series somewhat regularly for almost twenty years now.

[MrWiggles]

For example compare the first "Land before time" and "All dog go to heaven" to their sequels.

Those are made for children though, and children don't give a shit if they're watching crap.

Footkerchief hit one good point, mentioning that many animated-series sequels are produced by completely different teams to churn out home-video sales.  I add two points to that - We just spent a good chunk of the thread reminiscing about all the awesome animation from the 80s and early 90s, and there was plenty of it, before anime suddenly stormed the market.  Those of us who remember it were certainly children then, and we certainly knew crap from non-crap, that's why we reminisce about stuff.

My other point is that "Land Before Time" was dumb and "All Dogs Go To Heaven" was frighteningly bizarre without actually being any good.

There has been anime in the american market for years though. Dragonball was on Fox saturday morning run in 92. Then we had the /huge/ hit of Speed Racer during the seventies. We had the awesome and commercially successful Akira movie in the 80s. These are just the highlights, with probably some research I can pull out other examples.

It was far from all of a sudden. Its been in the american market for quite a long while.

And most anime isn't shown at prime hours but after market hours. Such as the cartoon network block Adult Swim.  Syfy channel used to reguarlly air anime late on saturday night long before they had their animonday block (that I think chiller has now?)

So I am not even seeing this 'ANIME IS EVERYWHERE!" complaint either. Majority of the animation that takes the prime time hours are western in origin and style.

[The Architect]

And Japan, itself, is an interesting place.  They were initially very insular, holding off the influence of the Western world for decades...  And then we went and nuked them...  And then we tried to impose our philosophy on them for a few decades...  They've got an interesting blend of traditional values and modern high-technology...  Interesting artwork, interesting language, interesting geography...

But you could say an awful lot of that about many other places.

Be careful with statements like this. I don't know what your thought process is here, but this statement is highly inflammatory. It's oversimplified, partially falsified, and completely non-inclusive of the important relevant facts. I won't address it again (in the interest of staying on topic), but you need to know that posts reflecting the ignorant misbelief that Japan was victimized in any way before, during, or after World War II are going to raise hackles.

Also, you stated that there isn't an overall obsession for Japan encompassing the majority of the United States. Well, obviously, you're right. But that's irrelevant. Some people, in fact many internet goers, are highly infatuated with anime and Japanese culture, which is (from a non-apologetic point of view) a culture traditionally inferior in social rights and moral standards to the one which traditionally existed in the "West" until recent times. His question is obviously directed toward understanding those who are obsessed with anime and Japanese culture, not the majority of the population who are not.

[Footkerchief]

"All Dogs Go To Heaven" was frighteningly bizarre without actually being any good.

Don Bluth... what a case.  I feel the need to repost this exchange, mostly because it took me a while to find it (the thread was apparently deleted):

[on the origins of furries] I suspect Disney (and Don Bluth, that weirdo) are to blame.  It's hardly an original thought but it's still the best explanation I've heard.

I'd give most of the credit to Bluth. Just look at that girl from Rockadoodle (not a shining example of Don Bluth, but still.) She was like Jessica Rabbit with a beak.

Yeah, although I doubt he was a furry himself in any sense.  He just took every chance he got to sexualize females, and if that meant drawing eyeshadow on a dog and damsels that look like strippers, well, so be it.  A true American hero.

Sultry dogs (one of which is apparently Charlie's baby mama), satanic imagery, torture, violent assassinations, rampant drunkenness, flamboyant alligator... how they fuck did they ever spin it as a kids' movie?  Fuck, now I want to watch it again.

And Japan, itself, is an interesting place.  They were initially very insular, holding off the influence of the Western world for decades...  And then we went and nuked them...  And then we tried to impose our philosophy on them for a few decades...  They've got an interesting blend of traditional values and modern high-technology...  Interesting artwork, interesting language, interesting geography...

But you could say an awful lot of that about many other places.

Be careful with statements like this. I don't know what your thought process is here, but this statement is highly inflammatory. It's oversimplified, partially falsified, and completely non-inclusive of the important relevant facts. I won't address it again (in the interest of staying on topic), but you need to know that posts reflecting the ignorant misbelief that Japan was victimized in any way before, during, or after World War II are going to raise hackles.

It having gone unremarked for the previous 40 hours, it's clearly only inflammatory to you.  Also, following up a borderline flamepost ("ignorant misbelief") with an exhortation to stay on topic just makes it look like you're trying to get the last word in.  Grind that axe somewhere else, please.