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This version of LNP is out of date

Yes and it makes me sad :(
- 82 (40%)
Yes and it makes me mad/angry/frusrated >:(
- 29 (14.1%)
Yes and it's okay because there are other versions now :)
- 94 (45.9%)

Total Members Voted: 205


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Author Topic: Lazy Newb Pack - Very out of date :(  (Read 2005973 times)

Greng

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Re: Lazy Newb Pack [0.31.18] [V7.0] With Graphical User Interface!
« Reply #645 on: February 20, 2011, 10:30:48 pm »

Hi,

Just wanted to post to say thank you for this pack.  I just started getting into DF about a year ago but ran for the hills scared!  (I should have run to the mountains).  I recently made another attempt to crack this beast of a game and also tried the ironhand graphics pack but it was messing up the text for some reason (probably wrong version number for .18).  Finally I conceded and got this noob pack and it's really helped, especially the inclusion of the job editor program seems useful. 

I'm not a lazy noob, im a terrible at computers noob :)

I mainly play Eve online and to find a game more harsh and impenetrable is quite a shock!
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Xeen

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Re: Lazy Newb Pack [0.31.18] [V7.0] With Graphical User Interface!
« Reply #646 on: February 21, 2011, 05:03:17 pm »

Thank you guys for this perfect tool to enter into  DF world and especially to make this enter much more comfortable.
Yes, I can edit init files manually. I can install graphic pack manualy. I can find necessary tools manually and configure them - but there is one superb atribute of your tool. I dont need to spend time to do that ((looking for compactible set of each part with recent version)) by my own - every time   I want to try new version  because everything is perfectly prepared by you already.  And it means I have more  time to  "Ruin another own fortress by something :)".

Oglokoog stated something about "your tool allow newcommers  to flood and ruin spirit of game and forum as well." I doubt that.  This game is different compares mainstream TopSeller titles.  It force player to think, plan forward, teach from previous mistakes much more than  Games For Masses which are focused to be  playable by  everyone who can use mouse = to more potential clients.  As we can see at many examples of recent game series - new version is  most likely richer in graphic detail or stunning effects  but  poorer in  complexity. This result often hurts previous version "veterans" who buys it because expect new fun of their favorite old game (and usually are dissapointed) but also has potential to lure new ones, who see old version as "too  diffcult, too complex to learn, with too old nasty graphic ..." .  Impatient harsh players who wants to  have everything easy and immediatelly like:  "You are hero, game was finished, you are the best. Only few can reach such  goal! You can make this as your achievement at Facebook and show your friends how SUPERB you are.....  but ... there is one HIGHER  step to be absolutelly perfect is to buy DLC/Datadisc for this fantastic price ... "  Impatient player who are used to have everything in "no time" and who is  overconfident  as  SuperPlayer often falls to arrogancy trap at forums as well.  In every game you will find something you don't like.  And if you have (as superplayer) lack of respect to others together with  sense of own absolute importance and own undoubt truth you will easilly  start to flame with  someone who acts  similar as your own mirror - but just with different opinion to  any aspect of game.  As was said here by  few guys already. DF  is not for masses and impatient players. And  reward here is not "FB achievement to  show your friends you are better than they are."  Reward here is fun of exploration this game and its complexity, fun of writing or reading stories about this game, for do-it-yourself guys. And as I said It cannot be changed by LNP  as long as  Toady continues walk on way to made this game more complex to be fun instead of  more simple to be for anyone.  That is what I wanted to say.

At the end part of my  typically long post :P
I am playing this game casually for about 1 year - using LNP last about 3 months. I played my first 2 fortresses few dozens of hours and lost them both of course, then started to use Phoebus Graphic Pack.  This day I installed it my 6 yrs old son asked me If he can have this game as well.  He is barely able to read in our native language - which as all of you already know from my language skill presented here - is  different from English.  I thought he would not be able to play it  neither this game will be fun for him for long time. First time he was only digging horizontal tunnels as long as his food was depleted and dwarwes stopped to dig :-P ..  but later .... I cannot say DF is his only game. He won Starcraft 2 single player already and playing ladder with bellow average results, he won Mass Effect I and II -  and few more games - but few times per every month he  visits my room and asks me - "Father, Why my dwarf attack others?  Or something else from DF. And then we go to his room and he learns few new tricks about DF.   
Now at his 7 years he can read slow but well in native language but also he can read and understand many  english words - only because of DF. If you let him to start new Fortress he can build  the very basic one with storages inside, basic workshops, doors, beds, basic rooms for his dwarfs using 2 or 3  levels, mining some diamonds and store them in own made bins, create still  and  distile some beer to  own made barels  - everything by his own.  None of  couple recent modern games forced him to  ask me about "what means word XXX"  - he won  his recent  modern  games just by Try to click icon by mouse and watch what is going to happen.  Last  weekend  he watched me to play and asked me  what is "Farm Plot" - so another step was made and he now can flood room using  small underground lake and  start his own farming fun.

As most of you undestands - DF is very complex game and patient enduring player will find how to enjoy play it by his very own way - like me or my son and every single one  of you. Playing this game may be not only fun and way to relax but also motivation to learn something more.  And any tool like your LNP  can only help to open door into the  very OWN Fortress - because  the only thing LNP does  is exactly show more people how to open this door into new Very Own Fortress - everything else remains in the hands of player. Well and in the hands of Toady the cruel one :).

Sorry for my  language skill, I hope who want to understand then he will do.

And again, thank you guys to help us "lazy newb players" to made DF Door opening more comfortable - and please continue with your good work.

EDIT: Few mistyped characters
« Last Edit: February 21, 2011, 05:12:00 pm by Xeen »
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Thundercraft

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Re: Lazy Newb Pack [0.31.18] [V7.0] With Graphical User Interface!
« Reply #647 on: February 21, 2011, 10:49:59 pm »

This game is different compares mainstream TopSeller titles.  It force player to think, plan forward, teach from previous mistakes much more than Games For Masses which are focused to be playable by everyone who can use mouse...
Well put. And that difference is why this game requires a certain level of patience and maturity.

DF is very complex game and patient enduring player will find how to enjoy play it by his very own way...
Yes. There's nothing wrong with that, either. The complexity means that it is just too tedious and difficult for a lot of people, but that's fine. And I think it is good that different players have there own ways of playing and enjoying this game. (Though, these differences can lead to disagreements and emotional discussions.)

Playing this game may be not only fun and way to relax but also motivation to learn something more.
It does seem that there's something about Dwarf Fortress which tends to encourage players to learn more and educate themselves. Many of us find ourselves searching and reading through wikipedia to learn more about animals, geology, minerals, gems, and metals to see how the real world relates to the game's simulation.

The Internet Age has certainly connected people from around the world like never before, breaking down barriers in language, culture, and geography. Some types of games seem to encourage more of this interaction than others. And while DF is not an online multiplayer game, it seems to be common for players to exhibit a lot of passion about it. I do find it interesting that, perhaps even more than some types of online games, DF seems to be bridging the language and culture divides and connecting folks from around the world.

Reward here is fun of exploration this game and its complexity, fun of writing or reading stories about this game, for do-it-yourself guys.
And sometimes writing about or reading stories about this game is almost as fun as the game itself. I could spend hours reading the stories on the wiki and not get bored, losing all track of time.

I think this image sums up the fun in DF and how that fun differs from other games quite nicely:
http://df.magmawiki.com/images/4/40/FunComic.png
« Last Edit: February 21, 2011, 11:59:30 pm by Thundercraft »
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LucasUP

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Re: Lazy Newb Pack [0.31.18] [V7.0] With Graphical User Interface!
« Reply #648 on: February 21, 2011, 11:04:05 pm »

@Xeen:
Wow! Thanks for the high praise.
That's really cool that your son is learning some language through Dwarf Fortress, and that he's able to grasp the game!
Quote
I can find necessary tools manually and configure them - but there is one superb atribute of your tool. I dont need to spend time to do that.
I'm glad it's doing what it's supposed to do! Even for knowledgeable players like yourself.

Also I can understand most of your English fairly well :) Just a few spots I had trouble with, but I figured them out.

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Thief^

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Re: Lazy Newb Pack [0.31.18] [V7.0] With Graphical User Interface!
« Reply #649 on: February 22, 2011, 04:15:14 am »

This day I installed it my 6 yrs old son asked me If he can have this game as well.  He is barely able to read in our native language - which as all of you already know from my language skill presented here - is  different from English.  I thought he would not be able to play it  neither this game will be fun for him for long time. First time he was only digging horizontal tunnels as long as his food was depleted and dwarwes stopped to dig :-P ..  but later .... I cannot say DF is his only game. He won Starcraft 2 single player already and playing ladder with bellow average results, he won Mass Effect I and II -  and few more games - but few times per every month he  visits my room and asks me - "Father, Why my dwarf attack others?  Or something else from DF. And then we go to his room and he learns few new tricks about DF.   
Now at his 7 years he can read slow but well in native language but also he can read and understand many  english words - only because of DF. If you let him to start new Fortress he can build  the very basic one with storages inside, basic workshops, doors, beds, basic rooms for his dwarfs using 2 or 3  levels, mining some diamonds and store them in own made bins, create still  and  distile some beer to  own made barels  - everything by his own.  None of  couple recent modern games forced him to  ask me about "what means word XXX"  - he won  his recent  modern  games just by Try to click icon by mouse and watch what is going to happen.  Last  weekend  he watched me to play and asked me  what is "Farm Plot" - so another step was made and he now can flood room using  small underground lake and  start his own farming fun.

I'm quite impressed, a lot of older people have trouble getting a working farm plot! Glad he's having fun!
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Re: Lazy Newb Pack [0.31.18] [V7.0] With Graphical User Interface!
« Reply #650 on: February 22, 2011, 04:38:40 am »

... it will be a while before many of the utilities and mods catch up. ...

Just heads up from soundsense: Since we do not access DF memory and rely on plaintext output of log, it is going to be always compatible with latest version (and propably backwards all the way to the 2d version) ... at least untill some major changes happen.

Soundpack might take some time to catch up with new messages not worked in and some older possibly broken...

TolyK

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Re: Lazy Newb Pack [0.31.18] [V7.0] With Graphical User Interface!
« Reply #651 on: February 22, 2011, 09:19:00 am »

cool, thanks for the info.

@Xeen: wow. that's... aweosome. even more than my brother. XD
thanks for the post, really keeps it up.

also please note: I use this a lot XD I actually make it partially to help my own, lazy self.
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Thundercraft

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Re: Lazy Newb Pack [0.31.18] [V7.0] With Graphical User Interface!
« Reply #652 on: February 23, 2011, 03:25:58 pm »

BUG REPORT:

On the "Options" tab on the LNP GUI, there is an "Exotic Animals" button, which is set to YES by default. (Since the Dungeon Master is bugged and never shows up, you can not normally train exotic animals.)

The problem is, when you set this option to "NO", this attempts to edit the raws in your saves so all the [PET_EXOTIC] are rewritten as [PET]. That's what it should do... in theory. But in practice it replaces them with {[PET]}. Apparently, those extra brackets can cause really weird behavior:

This was discovered in recent posts on the Modders Workshop thread:

The creature is an exact copy and paste of the deer, with names changed. But on death it doesn't leave a corpse, but about 50 hooves.
Well, the curly braces around your pet tag may cause crazy things to happen.
is because of Lazy Newb Pack exe file. I removed [PET_EXOTIC] from the game and it put the {} around [PET].
removed them, and works perfectly now, thanks!

I checked the raws in my saves with this option set to "No" and I can confirm this: All [PET_EXOTIC] tokens were converted to {[PET]}.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2011, 03:35:46 pm by Thundercraft »
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TolyK

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Re: Lazy Newb Pack [0.31.18] [V7.0] With Graphical User Interface!
« Reply #653 on: February 23, 2011, 03:33:28 pm »

gotcha.
hm... we'll have to mark those somehow. maybe a ! or a % ?
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Thundercraft

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Re: Lazy Newb Pack [0.31.18] [V7.0] With Graphical User Interface!
« Reply #654 on: February 23, 2011, 03:35:56 pm »

PS: I'm curious: If we set this option to "NO" and then later switch it back to "YES", how does the LNP GUI know which creatures it should rewrite the save raws from [PET] back to [PET_EXOTIC]? Perhaps those extra brackets were used to allow the GUI to differentiate those creatures which should have [PET_EXOTIC] by default, but were changed by user preference?

At least, that would make sense. But I fear you may need to implement this differently just to avoid this problem. Perhaps you could insert a dummy token as a prefix to the changed [PET] tokens, like this: [dummy][PET] or [UserPref][PET]? That might still allow the GUI to differentiate them by searching for that fake token so it would know to change the [PET] following that.
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TolyK

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Re: Lazy Newb Pack [0.31.18] [V7.0] With Graphical User Interface!
« Reply #655 on: February 23, 2011, 03:40:11 pm »

PS: I'm curious: If we set this option to "NO" and then later switch it back to "YES", how does the LNP GUI know which creatures it should rewrite the save raws from [PET] back to [PET_EXOTIC]? Perhaps those extra brackets were used to allow the GUI to differentiate those creatures which should have [PET_EXOTIC] by default, but were changed by user preference?

At least, that would make sense. But I fear you may need to implement this differently just to avoid this problem. Perhaps you could insert a dummy token as a prefix to the changed [PET] tokens, like this: [dummy][PET] or [UserPref][PET]? That might still allow the GUI to differentiate them by searching for that fake token so it would know to change the [PET] following that.
yeah, that's what it does, it's what I said too.

maybe a ! or a % ?
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Lazy Newb Pack [0.31.18] [V7.0] With Graphical User Interface!
« Reply #656 on: February 23, 2011, 03:40:37 pm »

In the raws, anything outside of brackets is considered a comment.  You could just put an "actually pet_exotic" in the raws when you change it, and the game won't even look at it if it isn't in brackets.
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TolyK

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Re: Lazy Newb Pack [0.31.18] [V7.0] With Graphical User Interface!
« Reply #657 on: February 23, 2011, 03:41:58 pm »

so yeah, we could put exclams "!" in front.
thanks for the info.
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Re: Lazy Newb Pack [0.31.18] [V7.0] With Graphical User Interface!
« Reply #658 on: February 24, 2011, 01:59:12 am »

I have a problem, I can't find the link to the new LNP!!!
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Re: Lazy Newb Pack [0.31.18] [V7.0] With Graphical User Interface!
« Reply #659 on: February 24, 2011, 02:16:34 am »

I have a problem, I can't find the link to the new LNP!!!
There is no new LNP yet, they are waiting for the next release.
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