Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Shaostoul]

I think right now, seeing as it's a "toy" and not a real book, it's all going to be "make believe" books. You could make another "book" called "metal studded book"

[Flaede]

I meant studding the book after creation. But yeah. S'all good.
THough.... covers... hmm... can clothing be created that is not wearable?

[Shaostoul]

In what fashion not wearable? You have your narrow, small, large sizes, that aren't wearable.

But yeah, my point was, it's not actually a book, nothing is really scribed onto the pages, there is no real book. It's just an item called book or leather bound book or metal studded book or book of folklore or necronomicon or dwarfinomicon or what have you.

[Upright Path]

Not sure if anyone pointed this out, but... If you add toys to that file, doesn't it make it likely that said toys will be generated randomly by any dwarf you set to make toys?

I mean, that could be an 'alright' result of it all, but to me that's sort of.. Bleh.

[SethCreiyd]

But yeah, my point was, it's not actually a book, nothing is really scribed onto the pages, there is no real book. It's just an item called book or leather bound book or metal studded book or book of folklore or necronomicon or dwarfinomicon or what have you.

It's an improvised representation, same as the library workshop it comes from.

A fully functional readable book like you'd find in an Elder Scrolls game or something isn't something you can mod in, but it would be nice if you could.

Not sure if anyone pointed this out, but... If you add toys to that file, doesn't it make it likely that said toys will be generated randomly by any dwarf you set to make toys?

I mean, that could be an 'alright' result of it all, but to me that's sort of.. Bleh.

They'll only make them that way if they're listed in the entity file.  I don't think that matters with reactions.

[Shaostoul]

I figure a book is most of the time a form of entertainment, so a "toy" of it would be relatively okay. That is until you run into "obisidian book, title: learn your abdorf's! caution very sharp edges, handle with care"

[D_E]

One idea I've been thinking about is to make Libraries take a "book collection" to build, and make small workbenches consisting of a table and chair.  Writerdwarfs could work at the small workbenches, producing essays.   Once a sufficient number of essays have been produced, an organizer could edit them together into a chronicle.  A sufficient number of chronicles could be combined to create a collection of chronicles or a dwarven history or something.  Similar trees could exist for accounting (census?) books, genealogies, etc.  Once the collection was complete and the library built, Librarians (organizers?  Teachers?) could use it to compile "study-guides or reference collections," consumable resources that other dwarves could use to gain experience in a variety of skills.  A variety of book-themed creatures could drop intermediates to speed this up, including a megabeast with a whole collection.

Another possibility is individual books on various subjects that your dwarves could pass around and gain skill from.  These would have to be artifact level rare, however.  One could imagine combat manuals that could be created by weapon smiths in strange moods, and armor training manuals created by armor-smiths.  Demonic books capable of training multiple skills could exist.

...

How good is the trade system right now, anyway?  If you have a fortress that churns out a lot of books etc and gives them to traders, will those books be brought as trade goods to your next fortress?

[Shaostoul]

D_E, the idea about the books is awesome. I personally wouldn't want someone to spend the time to create something like that, especially when it doesn't have any text to read for it. It'd just be all "you pretend this is a book and that this book has this stuff in it." With that amount of detail you'd have to go into for some of those things, I'd feel bad once real books come out and you got to just dump what you've made.

On trade... I believe the stuff might actually just "disappear" when shipped out. However artifact items MIGHT stay around. You'd need an adventurer and someone willing to spend the time on it, to see if that artifact turns up at the fort it is supposed to end up in.

[Flaede]

I think that caravans (for at least a time) do still exist. Folk encounter them often enough on the worldmap in adventure mode.

EDIT:

Not sure if anyone pointed this out, but... If you add toys to that file, doesn't it make it likely that said toys will be generated randomly by any dwarf you set to make toys?

Questions about that were a part of my original post. APparently so long as it's not included in any entity raws the answer I got was that no, it won't be produced randomly.

EDIT ^2: D_E,  I like the way you think. if description, or even memory, of the contents of each vellum page were remembered in the final product I would consider a many step process like this. However, right now, we can't do reactions like that, so it's not (to me) worth the time.

I DO like the idea of requiring multiple books to make up a library. But if that's the case, then where do the books get written? (at a Raven?)

[Deon]

D_E, the idea about the books is awesome. I personally wouldn't want someone to spend the time to create something like that, especially when it doesn't have any text to read for it. It'd just be all "you pretend this is a book and that this book has this stuff in it." With that amount of detail you'd have to go into for some of those things, I'd feel bad once real books come out and you got to just dump what you've made.

On trade... I believe the stuff might actually just "disappear" when shipped out. However artifact items MIGHT stay around. You'd need an adventurer and someone willing to spend the time on it, to see if that artifact turns up at the fort it is supposed to end up in.

Common items do not become a part of the entity you trade them to, so I think it's impossible to buy something you sold in another fortress, but I am not sure.

I am pretty sure that artifacts are tied to their location of creation and cannot be traded. Even when they are destroyed they still stay so they kinda "respawn" when you come with an adventurer.

[D_E]

I DO like the idea of requiring multiple books to make up a library. But if that's the case, then where do the books get written? (at a Raven?)

Only if it's like a writing desk.  But yeah.  Make a "desk" workshop (1 chair, 1 table, two tile workshop using the table and chair symbols, dwarf stands where the chair symbol is).

It wouldn't take much work to do what I described, maybe a couple of pages of mod (1 toy per level of book (essay, chronicle, collection), 1 rxn to create each, the workshops themselves, a toy and rxn for creating "study-guides" and any rxns desired to allow the dwafs to use said study-guides to improve their skills).  The multiple level thing is really just to allow you to require lots of books.  It would get kinda tiresome for the player if they had to manually select >100 books to construct a library.

But actually forcing a player to build enough books for a library would be sort of irritating, so there would have to be a reliable way to buy additional books.  An order of Paladins?  A Modron civ?

Common items do not become a part of the entity you trade them to, so I think it's impossible to buy something you sold in another fortress, but I am not sure.

[SethCreiyd]

You can give books to Humans and Elves in the raws so that their traders will bring them.  As mentioned, giving them to dwarf entity means you'll end up with rock books every time you make toys, so... 

I scratched the whole library workshop in my plans in favor of desks.  A 2x3 or 1x3 workshop entitled "bookshelf" built from books and buildmats is feasible.  I wish you could designate a library room from a bookshelf, since right now the bookshelf is pretty useless except as a room decoration, though you can build several in a big room, fill it with chairs and tables, and make a big statue garden from a couple statues by the entrance and set it as a meeting hall.  Sounds like a library.  They should admire the fine bookshelves, anyway.

Question - since it is a reaction and not a hardcoded task, would a writer's skill in prose have *any* effect on the value of the book?  Novels should be pretty valuable regardless, considering the combined value of each page going into it, made even more so if bound in valuable leather.

"Books and Papercrafts" is listed on the Eternal Suggestion page, #91.  It will probably be a long time before books are officially added in, so I don't see the harm in folks figuring out ways to incorporate them into the game now, even if it's only something like "This is a dog leather journal."  It's fun to make and it's fun to play with.

[D_E]

Your dwarfs can make books using reactions without them turning up while making toys.  They will only turn up while making toys if you explicitly add them as toys in the entity file (TOY:ITEM_WHATEVER_BOOK will cause books to be made as toys, PERMITTED_REACTION:WRITE_A_BOOK won't).  Dwarven traders won't bring books if Dwarfs just have them as rxn products, unfortunately.

I like your bookshelf idea, you could combine it with desk workshops to maybe make something interesting (desk rxn makes a product ("McDewy decimal number") that causes a job to auto-create at the nearest bookshelf that creates another product ("stack of reference books") that a dwarf can use to study their skill.

It would let you start using libraries quickly, while providing a benefit to getting more.

[jaked122]

I like the bookbinding idea. BTW - It's called "vellum" when it's "paper made from skin".
I wonder - is there a way to involve metal studding? or can that only be worked into clothes?

Parchment: a stiff, flat, thin material made from the prepared skin of an animal and used as a durable writing surface in ancient and medieval times
Vellum: fine parchment made originally from the skin of a calf.

[Flaede]

I like the bookbinding idea. BTW - It's called "vellum" when it's "paper made from skin".
I wonder - is there a way to involve metal studding? or can that only be worked into clothes?

Parchment: a stiff, flat, thin material made from the prepared skin of an animal and used as a durable writing surface in ancient and medieval times
Vellum: fine parchment made originally from the skin of a calf.

whups! you are so very right.
Either way, this is taking off beyond anything I'd expected.
I'm a little hesitant on the idea of "mc dewy decimal", considering this. But I like the idea of a study desk creating a need for books from shelves. So the general gist might remain the same. some combination of auto reactions would be cool. The current "skill up" workshops seem rather too easy and "cheat-ey", though I know they're mostly workarounds for broken military and whatnot.