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[Cthulhu]

Nikov actually has a skewed enough world view/is enough of a troll that he actually does think it's wrong to give people food and shelter.

Are you feeling Randy?  I'm feeling Randy.

Anyway, Nikov's right.  The government isn't your mom, it shouldn't act like it is.  I wouldn't trust the government to run the entire economy, and if they could I wouldn't trust them to do it responsibly.

Also, why should the doctor, the button-pusher, and the screw-screwer have the same pay scale?  Two are doing menial, mindless jobs where the only real occupational stress is carpal tunnel and the crushing knowledge that this is the rest of your life.  The other is doing extremely stressful, high-tension jobs where people will die if you mess up.  Why do they deserve the same amount of pay?

[Dwarf]

Is a doctor superior than a button-pusher? No. They are equal, and everybody is doing a job he is enjoying and fits him (there is no such thing as a 'button-pusher', communism moves away from such industrialization era ideas)

[Cthulhu]

How so?  Are you all going back to the days of subsistence farming?

And yes, a doctor is superior.  Not everyone can handle being a doctor, but you'd be hard pressed to find a shortage of menial laborers.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

why should a button pusher or screw screwer have less than what's available? there's enough everything for everybody, why should some hoard it in the name of social hierarchy. we also have the technology to turn every screw screwer into a button pusher, and enough doctors to take some weight of other doctors' back, but the doctors that are already working love their high salaries too much to share it with more colleagues: here in portugal, medschools create very little openings every year despite many hospitals not having enough doctors.

[ChairmanPoo]

I wouldn't say that a doctor is "superior" to a "button pusher" per se. I would say, however, that higher formation and responsability deserve higher rewards.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

there are some things that shouldn't be considered rewards, tough. food, shelter, heath care, the ability to provide education to your children... when you effectively sell this stuff, you're treating them as rewards. also, lets drop the doctors and start talking about actual capitalists, the kind that simply owns something that gives him money, these are the ones that are actually endangered by communism

[Il Palazzo]

Two fallacies of communist thought:
All humans are equal.
All humans are altruistic.

[Dwarf]

1. Why not
2. It's a matter of education and raising. Today, altruism is strongly disencouraged, due to capitalism.

[Luke_Prowler]

Two fallacies of communist thought:
All humans are equal.
All humans are altruistic.

Some are just more equal than others.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

All humans are altruistic.

if communism made that fallacy it wouldn't have spawned so many authoritarian states. you're mistaking us for anarchists

[Cthulhu]

They didn't make it, it's a common fallacy.

[Earthquake Damage]

there's enough everything for everybody

Let me introduce you to the fundamental issue of economics.

[Il Palazzo]

All humans are altruistic.

if communism made that fallacy it wouldn't have spawned so many authoritarian states. you're mistaking us for anarchists

Communist ideology includes this fallacy, by assuming that everybody would work their asses off for the greater good of the whole community.

1. Why not
2. It's a matter of education and raising. Today, altruism is strongly disencouraged, due to capitalism.

1. What, are you living on the mountain top? Have you ever met some other people? This one is stronger, this one is dumber, this one can do this better, this one can't do a thing, etc.
Each time you're interacting with someone in any way more complex than talking about the weather, you're automatically assessing his/her worth. You wouldn't want to have a conversation with a dumbass. You wouldn't want to mess with a beefed-up guy. You wouldn't want to employ a complete loser. You wouldn't want to be led by someone without charisma.
Equality is fine as long as you're competing for a resource that everybody's literally swimming in - like air - otherwise people will use their abilities to claim the limited resources for themselves.

2. And I say it's a matter of evolutionary adaptation. As long as altruism is helping genes spread more than direct egoism, it's prefferable. What communists try to make us believe is that there can exist a permanent situation that makes altruism more efficient than egoism for everyone.

[Josephus]

Two fallacies of communist thought:
All humans are equal.
All humans are altruistic.

Some are just more equal than others.

Four legs good, two legs baaaaad.

[Maggarg - Eater of chicke]

Is a doctor superior than a button-pusher? No. They are equal, and everybody is doing a job he is enjoying and fits him (there is no such thing as a 'button-pusher', communism moves away from such industrialization era ideas)

But that doesn't explain why a doctor would get the same pay. Even if they do enjoy their jobs and their jobs fit them, the path to becoming a doctor is long and hard, even more so to become a great doctor. It's incredibly hard work even to be a doctor, especially the kind of decisions a doctor has to take. The button pusher as a human, is equal, but as a worker is much less important. Almost anyone can do his job.