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[CJ1145]

He knows this because he has been everywhere and has found all other countries and lifestyles wanting. U S A! U S A! GOOO

Funny, funny. With all the immigration crap I'd have to go through, I doubt I'd ever get more opportunity than where I am now. So, yeah, point for me.

This is pretty glaring. It's because Batista royally fucked up the economy because he only cared about making money for himself and America. Castro then spent decades fixing it.

Whether or not he tried to fix it, Communism sure as hell did not work. However, Cuba actually became somewhat respectable on the market after implementing some elements of free market. So...

[Dwarf]

@CJ Your signature is basically made to make me look like an idiot. I don't give a shit though, but it's immature of you.

And as I stated earlier in the thread, whilst Communism brought some bettering to Cuba, it's pointless if it is a single state. If it were entire South America, it'd another matter.

[CJ1145]

@CJ Your signature is basically made to make me look like an idiot. I don't give a shit though, but it's immature of you.

What do you mean by that? There was literally nothing more to that part of the conversation. I quoted it verbatim, without taking anything of value away from it.

And as I stated earlier in the thread, whilst Communism brought some bettering to Cuba, it's pointless if it is a single state. If it were entire South America, it'd another matter.

If by another matter, you mean total shitstorm, I'd agree. In small groups, Communism can work quite well, I'll give you that. But in larger scales it goes tits up and runs straight into brutal fascism, going by history.

[Jackrabbit]

He knows this because he has been everywhere and has found all other countries and lifestyles wanting. U S A! U S A! GOOO

Funny, funny. With all the immigration crap I'd have to go through, I doubt I'd ever get more opportunity than where I am now. So, yeah, point for me.

This is pretty glaring. It's because Batista royally fucked up the economy because he only cared about making money for himself and America. Castro then spent decades fixing it.

Whether or not he tried to fix it, Communism sure as hell did not work. However, Cuba actually became somewhat respectable on the market after implementing some elements of free market. So...

Okay, hang on, don't change your point in the middle of a discussion. You point (and the one I was refuting) was that Castro fucked up the economy enough that he needed aid from Russia, which is not the case. "Changing tack in the middle of a conversation means you never have to admit that you're wrong" apparently. And, since Castro led the country until the 70s and went a very long way to fixing the economy I fail to see how Communism didn't work in Cuba.

I also fail to see how a country can be even halfway respectable on the market when one of the most powerful nations in the world is imposing an embargo on it and has done for decades. Why is that still happening again?

Okay, and finally, not having the opportunity to ever back up your point is not the same as being right. You don't win a point for having an excuse not to back up your argument. Your argument is still wrong, it's just that people can see why its wrong now.

@CJ Your signature is basically made to make me look like an idiot. I don't give a shit though, but it's immature of you.

And as I stated earlier in the thread, whilst Communism brought some bettering to Cuba, it's pointless if it is a single state. If it were entire South America, it'd another matter.

He asked if there was any Communist country that didn't start with a dictator, you said Cuba. There's really nothing more to it than that, if you want to be simplistic about it. And if you want to go into detail about it, you could just click on the sig. Since CJ is doing an appalling job of defending his position, it'll probably end up backfiring on him anyway.

EDIT:

And as I stated earlier in the thread, whilst Communism brought some bettering to Cuba, it's pointless if it is a single state. If it were entire South America, it'd another matter.

If by another matter, you mean total shitstorm, I'd agree. In small groups, Communism can work quite well, I'll give you that. But in larger scales it goes tits up and runs straight into brutal fascism, going by history.

This is the first time I've ever said this and had it be an actual, honest rebuttal.

WUT.

That point is wrong. I'll leave it to you to figure out why, although others are going to come in and tell you pretty quickly.

[Dwarf]

No, he said brutal dictatorship which represses people. This is not the case.

[Jackrabbit]

No, he said brutal dictatorship which represses people. This is not the case.

Fascism is still the wrong word to use, by a huge margin.

[Dwarf]

watwat?

Nobody said anything of fascism.
He asked me to name a (pseduo-)communist nation which did not have a brutal repressive dictatorship and I said Cuba.

Cuba is not a dictatorship, neither are the people repressed.

[nenjin]

No, he said brutal dictatorship which represses people. This is not the case.

So Robot Chicken is just being funny when they make skits about Castro blowing people's brains out in the name of the Glorious Revolution?

Sorry, but by non-Communist standards, communist dictatorships always come with the loss of rights and the often violent subjugation of the populace. I'm not giving other forms of government a free pass on that one, but with direct state control of all aspects of society, you get repression and violent repression. Particularly when property is reacquired by the state.

Castro doesn't have the worst track record, but he doesn't have the cleanest either. Cuba was a dictatorship and has become less so over time. Whose side of the argument that favors, I don't care, but let's not gloss over the 60s, 70s and 80s in Cuba like they were awesome.

[Dwarf]

Well, cite me a source.

EDIT: That is, about the brain blowing

[smigenboger]

Wow this thread exploded. Hopefully people will stop arguing about the definition of words and talk about what kind of government style would work well

[Jackrabbit]

watwat?

Nobody said anything of fascism.
He asked me to name a (pseduo-)communist nation which did not have a brutal repressive dictatorship and I said Cuba.

Cuba is not a dictatorship, neither are the people repressed.

Oh, I see, I thought you were responding to a different point, my bad.

My point stands though, this thread is not making CJ look good by any stretch of the imagination, so don't worry about it.

EDIT:

No, he said brutal dictatorship which represses people. This is not the case.

So Robot Chicken is just being funny when they make skits about Castro blowing people's brains out in the name of the Glorious Revolution?

That might be because there was a revolution, and in a revolution, people die. During the revolution, the only dictatorship was Batista's.

Apart from that, I agree with you.

[scriver]

Isn't any Christian who's not also communist doing it wrong, anyway? 

[nenjin]

Well, cite me a source.

EDIT: That is, about the brain blowing

The Cuban government has been accused of numerous human rights abuses including torture, arbitrary imprisonment, unfair trials, and extrajudicial executions (a.k.a. "El Paredón").[80]  The Human Rights Watch alleges that the government "represses nearly all forms of political dissent" and that "Cubans are systematically denied basic rights to free expression, association, assembly, privacy, movement, and due process of law".[81]

Cited, by the lowest form of information gathering on the Internet.

Which you could have done perfectly well yourself, and learned perfectly well by yourself. And no, I don't need to go beyond Wikipedia to prove it, because it's practically common knowledge. You're arguing in vain; there was violent repression in Cuba's past by Communist regimes, and most communist regimes have violently repressed their own people at some point.

Then again, so has every government. Next?

[Jackrabbit]

Isn't any Christian who's not also communist doing it wrong, anyway? 

I could tell you stories...

For instance - in Australia in the 1910-20s, there was a Christian group dedicated to rooting the Communists out of unions (I think it was called The Movement).

So yeah, they're doing it wrong, but good luck convincing them of that.

[CJ1145]

Okay, hang on, don't change your point in the middle of a discussion. You point (and the one I was refuting) was that Castro fucked up the economy enough that he needed aid from Russia, which is not the case. "Changing tack in the middle of a conversation means you never have to admit that you're wrong" apparently. And, since Castro led the country until the 70s and went a very long way to fixing the economy I fail to see how Communism didn't work in Cuba.

Castro's reign didn't do a whole lot for his country before the economic boom of tourism. Until he implemented some free market, he wasn't doing all that great.

I also fail to see how a country can be even halfway respectable on the market when one of the most powerful nations in the world is imposing an embargo on it and has done for decades. Why is that still happening again?

You may not have noticed, but there is no badge on my avatar that states "representative of the US government". I don't know why we're still doing it. Ideological reasons, maybe, or perhaps it's just not a big priority with the troubles our own nation has.

Okay, and finally, not having the opportunity to ever back up your point is not the same as being right. You don't win a point for having an excuse not to back up your argument. Your argument is still wrong, it's just that people can see why its wrong now.

?? I seriously don't understand the inclusion of this point. Maybe I'm misreading something, but I've been trying to back up my points. The only sources I've seen from the other side are Cuban or from the UN, which due to sympathies to the government would obviously skew any evidence in their favor. For my side of the argument, open a history book and take a look at Cuba.

This is the first time I've ever said this and had it be an actual, honest rebuttal.

WUT.

That point is wrong. I'll leave it to you to figure out why, although others are going to come in and tell you pretty quickly.

Jesus, man, so I accidentally used the "f" word. The point is, large scale Communism, by looking at history, tends to devolve into brutal dictatorships. The utopias that the idea claim to occur are still nowhere to be found. For all the hatred you throw at me for my supposed dodging of arguments, you're pretty quick to toss away all my points and jump on one wrong word like a rabid cougar.