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[Blade_Train3r]

@ Armok: I want to say a lot, but I'm just gonna say that I, as a reasonably rational human being, disagree entirely with your philosophy.

[dragnar]

The main problem with Armok's philosophy is this: from a purely logical standpoint life has no meaning. Therefore there is no "reason" to do anything ever. A purely logical standpoint does not work because emotions must be factored in somewhere. If you WANT to spend your life helping others, more power to you, but if everyone were to do that, regardless of what they wanted, the world would be a very sad and boring place.

[Pathos]

The main problem with Armok's philosophy is this: from a purely logical standpoint life has no meaning. Therefore there is no "reason" to do anything ever. A purely logical standpoint does not work because emotions must be factored in somewhere. If you WANT to spend your life helping others, more power to you, but if everyone were to do that, regardless of what they wanted, the world would be a very sad and boring place.

Apparently emotions let us judge whether an attempted crime should be considered a crime or not. It's odd, but it's true.

[Cthulhu]

ARMOK, STOP KILLING PEOPLE. EVERY TIME YOU POST ON THIS FORUM YOU   MURDER SOMEONE BY INACTION. YOU MURDERER.

a) I'm in school, so I can't really do anything directly, my own time spent is not the limiting factor on my studies, and as such the most productive thing I can do is LEARN. One of the main things I need to learn, one of my weaknesses I need to correct, is social skills, something that I practice as good as any other way by going here.
b) I am not a hypocrite, I am not perfect, I have almost certainly at many points failed in one way or another which has costed lives, however dwelling on this MORE than I already do is not contributing to saving more lives, and I am doing much more than any of you with a rather large probability.

DON'T RATIONALIZE, MURDERER.  REMEMBER?  YOU TOLD US NOT TO RATIONALIZE OUR HORRIBLE ACTIONS, AND NOW YOU'RE ALL "BOOHOO, I CAN'T SAVE PEOPLE BECAUSE I'M IN SCHOOL"

LOOK OUTSIDE.  SOMEWHERE OUT THERE THERE'S A GIRL IN TROUBLE, AND I BET SHE'LL FALL IN LOVE WITH YOU IF YOU SAVE HER.

FAIRY TALES COME TRUE (Except transhumanism)

CHASE THE DREAM, ARMOK.  CHASE THE DREAM.

If he's out chasing the dream, he's not in here posting.  You see my logic here.

[Vester]

OH MY GOD CTHULHU'S RIGHT

GO OUT AND SAVE THAT GIRL, ARMOK

HOLD HER IN YOUR STRONG, MANLY EYEARMS

[ChairmanPoo]

Hypothetical situation? This happens all the time with real life doctors. I've seen plenty of doctors who are forced by the Hippocratic Oath to cure people even while they're on vacation. Some had to treat sick patients on a plane and were criticized for asking for compensation, even when the plane was not going in the same direction they had planned to go on their vacation. Similarly, some people are criticized for asking for a pile of money when curing people.

It's one reason I'd never become a doctor. That alone makes it a moral thing to do - if the living conditions for doctors are too poor, many people would not become doctors in the first place.

No, you have seen doctors treat people on a plane because they are forced by the fact that denial of assistance is a crime, not because of the Hippocratic oath. Which is not binding. Or universal, for that matter.

By the way, denial of assistance covers non-doctors too. It's just that a doctor can and is expected to do more, within limits (since most of the time all he will be able to do is provide basic assistance and call an ambulance anyway)

[Pathos]

OH MY GOD CTHULHU'S RIGHT

GO OUT AND SAVE THAT GIRL, ARMOK

HOLD HER IN YOUR STRONG, MANLY EYEARMS

SHE IS IMMORAL, ARMOK. YOU MUST MAKE HER MORAL.

[Cthulhu]

Armok:  I love you, The Girl.

The girl:  But, Armok...  Every second we gaze into each other's eyes is a second we could be saving lives.  You aren't maximizing your utilons.  I can never love you.

SWEEPING MOURNFUL ORCHESTRAL SCOOOOOORE

Armok:  NOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Zangi]

Hypothetical situation? This happens all the time with real life doctors. I've seen plenty of doctors who are forced by the Hippocratic Oath to cure people even while they're on vacation. Some had to treat sick patients on a plane and were criticized for asking for compensation, even when the plane was not going in the same direction they had planned to go on their vacation. Similarly, some people are criticized for asking for a pile of money when curing people.

It's one reason I'd never become a doctor. That alone makes it a moral thing to do - if the living conditions for doctors are too poor, many people would not become doctors in the first place.

No, you have seen doctors treat people on a plane because they are forced by the fact that denial of assistance is a crime, not because of the Hippocratic oath. Which is not binding. Or universal, for that matter.

By the way, denial of assistance covers non-doctors too. It's just that a doctor can and is expected to do more, within limits (since most of the time all he will be able to do is provide basic assistance and call an ambulance anyway)

"Doctor?  What doctor?  I'm not a doctor, noone important.  Just call the ambulance."

[smigenboger]

So Armok takes my 'everything you do, including what you consider 'good for people' is oppressing someone else equally' and says "No! It's a good thing because I only see the result of people liking me more because I help these specific people".

It's been nearly 7 months since the last major round of Armok saying he has little social life and uses DF as a testing ground. You aren't going to listen, but dear god Armok go outside, buy a Warhammer 40k set, or a D&D set or something, ask the local hobby shop if there are competitions locally, and do some actual live RTD. You will interact with people. You will gain social XP. From there, you can probably find some other humanitarian furry with a bitter dislike for the mainstream world that shunned them so that you may contemplate why you're so much better than them and meditate your way to being a sentient guardian of the immoral world that cast you out.

[Muz]

No, you have seen doctors treat people on a plane because they are forced by the fact that denial of assistance is a crime, not because of the Hippocratic oath. Which is not binding. Or universal, for that matter.

By the way, denial of assistance covers non-doctors too. It's just that a doctor can and is expected to do more, within limits (since most of the time all he will be able to do is provide basic assistance and call an ambulance anyway)

Yeah, I know the Hippocratic oath isn't binding, but people always use it to say "You're immoral for taking a vacation! I invoke Hippocratic oath!" I'm not saying that they shouldn't help, it's just that I feel sorry they get yelled at for asking for compensation. And in some nations, it's not illegal to not help.

[Pathos]

So Armok takes my 'everything you do, including what you consider 'good for people' is oppressing someone else equally' and says "No! It's a good thing because I only see the result of people liking me more because I help these specific people".

It's been nearly 7 months since the last major round of Armok saying he has little social life and uses DF as a testing ground. You aren't going to listen, but dear god Armok go outside, buy a Warhammer 40k set, or a D&D set or something, ask the local hobby shop if there are competitions locally, and do some actual live RTD. You will interact with people. You will gain social XP. From there, you can probably find some other humanitarian furry with a bitter dislike for the mainstream world that shunned them so that you may contemplate why you're so much better than them and meditate your way to being a sentient guardian of the immoral world that cast you out.

Is

Spoiler: Really, Don't Open It, Don't Open It (click to show/hide)

this guy

close enough?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Armok's phillosophy aside, invoking the Hippocratic Oath isn't a way to make any friends, or get things done.
For example:

Flight Attendent: "Our records show you as a doctor. A man in second class needs surgery, now!"

Vatcationing Doctor: "And whom will be paying for said surgery?"

Flight Attendent: "Pay? What kind of horrid person are you?! You must help under the Hippocratic Oath! Now go!"

Vatcationing Doctor: "Oh, I must help for free? Well fuck you then. I'm going back to sleep."

Is it somewhat of a selfish, evil response on the doctor's part? Yes. But, although I haven't ever been one myself, I would think being a surgeon is very difficult. Having other people act like they own you for your talent is a easy way to bring out the worst in them.

[Pathos]

I have the perfect defence!

"I'm not a doctor, I'm a surgeon! Leave me alone!"

[sonerohi]

I'd tell them to screw off if I were the surgeon. An ex-soldier isn't required by law to run into gunfire if there is a robbery somewhere. I'm not getting paid for helping them and I'll still have some degree of liability I assume. They would basically want me to risk my neck helping someone I care nothing about for no benefit at all.