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[fenrif]

What's the big deal? He is the better actor, he deserves the part.

Better actor is a very relative term. You wouldn't cast Steve Bushemi in a role intended for wesley snipes.

Right, this is what I'm talking about - it's 'not random' for Nick Fury to be black in the movies because he's already black in the comics (or one universe, anyways). But what about before Ultimate NF was created and made black? How is that not seen as a random change but Peter Parker is?


So you're saying they changed his race in the comics to get a bigger box office draw in film adaptations? All right, then why can't Peter Parker be another box office drawing black actor?

No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm talking about the casting for the films.

See the difference is, when they changed Nick Fury in the comics it was because they were creating a whole new marvel universe, whoever decided to change him figured he wasn't a major character, and so they could get away with changing him significantly. All the major marvel characters were changed too, but only in relativly minor ways (iron man is the same, he just has a different reason for being drunk all the time, spiderman was a teenager again, etc). Note that this is Marvel changing things, not the movie studios. Marvel, for better or worse, knows what they want from their characters and what people expect. They have the best grasp imaginable of the history and mythos of the characters. Hollywood made spiderman 3. I know which organisation i trust to make changes to superheroes.

Spiderman is a huge pop-culture icon, everyone knows who spiderman is, and can describe him at the drop of a hat. If they don't get a nerdy looking white guy to play him one of two things will happen:

1) He's the same character, but black (asian, hispanic, etc) which is pointless, and just change for change's sake. Why arbitrarily change his skin colour for no reason other than he's always been white?
or
2) He'll be "black spiderman" or whatever, and will be a different character but with spiderman's powers. Which is also pointless because at this point you may aswell just make a new character.

As I said before, you wouldn't make a biopic about Will Smith and cast Tony Jaa, or one about Albert Einstein and cast Morgan Freeman.

[DJ]

It's like making a movie about Abraham Lincoln and replacing his top hat with a cowboy hat. Sure, Lincoln's hat is hardly a defining part of his life and work, but changing it just feels wrong.

[Realmfighter]

It's like making a movie about Abraham Lincoln and replacing his top hat with a cowboy hat. Sure, Lincoln's hat is hardly a defining part of his life and work, but changing it just feels wrong.

That metaphor fails, because that movie would become exponentially more awesome with Abe in a cowboy hat.

[Retro]

Well, for one thing, the guy they have suggested now is a nobody. And in all honesty? What I've seen him do isn't all that good.

I totally agree, but I don't think because one guy who wants to be Spiderman is a poor actor that nobody black, or any non-white ethnicity, should be eligible.

1) He's the same character, but black (asian, hispanic, etc) which is pointless, and just change for change's sake. Why arbitrarily change his skin colour for no reason other than he's always been white?

All right, well I accept your argument that Hollywood would screw it up, but I still think the above point doesn't explain how Nick Fury suddenyl changing races wasn't "pointless and just change for change's sake" while Spiderman would be.

[Josephus]

1) He's the same character, but black (asian, hispanic, etc) which is pointless, and just change for change's sake. Why arbitrarily change his skin colour for no reason other than he's always been white?

All right, well I accept your argument that Hollywood would screw it up, but I still think the above point doesn't explain how Nick Fury suddenyl changing races wasn't "pointless and just change for change's sake" while Spiderman would be.

Nick Fury didn't just change race. He changed personality, ethos, everything. Nick Fury in mainstream Marvel is closer to Good. Samuel L. Fury verges on Lawful Evil. And also he's an asshole.

[fenrif]

1) He's the same character, but black (asian, hispanic, etc) which is pointless, and just change for change's sake. Why arbitrarily change his skin colour for no reason other than he's always been white?

All right, well I accept your argument that Hollywood would screw it up, but I still think the above point doesn't explain how Nick Fury suddenyl changing races wasn't "pointless and just change for change's sake" while Spiderman would be.

Nick Fury didn't just change race. He changed personality, ethos, everything. Nick Fury in mainstream Marvel is closer to Good. Samuel L. Fury verges on Lawful Evil. And also he's an asshole.

This. Nick Fury in ultimate marvel is a different character from Nick Fury in normal marvel, they just kept the same name.

[Retro]

Ah, my bad. Hadn't seen it brought up in the thread and didn't know aside from that.

[cowofdoom78963]

Better actor is a very relative term. You wouldn't cast Steve Bushemi in a role intended for wesley snipes.

I get what you're saying. As long as they dont do that "black spiderman" thing you were talking about I dont see a problem though. A nerd can be played by a black person as well as any white person.

He's the same character, but black (asian, hispanic, etc) which is pointless, and just change for change's sake. Why arbitrarily change his skin colour for no reason other than he's always been white?

Why not? Peter Parker is not MLK. His race is not really a theme.

[Jackrabbit]

When it comes to re-imagining superheroes there's two things that I think should never be changed. Sexuality and gender. Like, how the new Batgirl is a lesbian. What? Why would you make her a lesbian? Did Batman go around boning girls all the time? Did Batgirl go around boning men?

First off: Batwoman.

Second: Hot lesbians are hot.

Third: Her character was really well handled in 52.

Apparently there's also a Batgirl. And a Nightwing and a Robin. And several other characters. Damn it, I'm not a Batman fan, this is just unfair! I can't keep track!

[Creaca]

Changing costumes from interpretation to interpretation is fine.

Changing personality from interpretation to interpretation is fine.

Change race? The hell? Next you'll want to let 'em vote.

[Jackrabbit]

Didn't Superman used to have a friend called Jimmy who he was constantly a cock to? Where did he go for the re-imagining?

[fenrif]

Didn't Superman used to have a friend called Jimmy who he was constantly a cock to? Where did he go for the re-imagining?

Jimmy Olsen? He's been in pretty much every superman thing so far I think, usually he's just hanging around the daily planet being useless.

Changing costumes from interpretation to interpretation is fine.

Changing personality from interpretation to interpretation is fine.

Change race? The hell? Next you'll want to let 'em vote.

My entire point is that changing personality isn't fine, if you're going to change the fundamental aspects of the character then why not just make another character?

[Creaca]

Jimmy was the cock to Superman most of the time.


Superdickery.com has tons of stuff on Jimmy.

[Jackrabbit]

I know, that's where I got it.

Didn't Superman used to have a friend called Jimmy who he was constantly a cock to? Where did he go for the re-imagining?

Jimmy Olsen? He's been in pretty much every superman thing so far I think, usually he's just hanging around the daily planet being useless.

Really? Wow is he unmemorable.

[fenrif]

I know, that's where I got it.

Didn't Superman used to have a friend called Jimmy who he was constantly a cock to? Where did he go for the re-imagining?

Jimmy Olsen? He's been in pretty much every superman thing so far I think, usually he's just hanging around the daily planet being useless.

Really? Wow is he unmemorable.

That's what happenes when your entire defining characteristic is that you have red hair and are kind of a dick.