Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2 3

Author Topic: Bentgirder: a stepping stone for new players  (Read 7882 times)

Strangething

  • Bay Watcher
  • Slizardman
    • View Profile
    • My Blog
Bentgirder: a stepping stone for new players
« on: June 01, 2010, 09:41:49 pm »

I have an idea on how to get my friends to play Dwarf Fortress. I'm going to do what TinyPirate did, and put together a custom DF package, with a graphics pack and a pre-generated world.

Before I start, I want to get some input from more experienced players. I don't use graphics myself, so I need to find a set that is easy to read. I don't want one that overwrites accented vowels.

Also, what skills and supplies should my starting seven have? I was thinking of a Miner, a Woodcutter/Axedwarf, a Mason/Architect, a Carpenter, a Planter, a Mechanic/Stonecrafter, and a Doctor/Trader/Brewer. I intend to bring a ton of food and booze, two dogs, and one cat.

Is there anything important that I'm missing? Please, give me your input.
Logged

Labhras

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Bentgirder: a stepping stone for new players
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2010, 09:52:09 pm »

Might want to have a 2nd cat if you are using the latest version, and snag yourself a breeding pair. Even if you don't want that many kittens, you can easily butcher them for free meat, bones, and leather.

My usual setup is a miner, a miner/trader, a woodworking dwarf (woodcutting and carpentry, don't really care much for woodcarving/bowyer), a mason/architect/mechanic (don't really need more than novice in mechanics for embark), a craftsdwarf (novice gem cutter, skilled gem setter (or whatever level 4 is), proficient stonecrafter), a metalsmith (lv3 in metalcrafting, weaponsmithing, and armorsmithing. I also give him one level in fishing so he has something to do while I get set up), and a farmer (mostly in growing and herbalist. but usually with a level in butchery, brewing, and cooking.) Depending on your playstyle and if you are using the latest version, might want to blow a lot of points on sand. Sure, your dwarves will spend time moving them to furniture stockpiles and glass is kind of a pain (in my opinion) without magma, but it's only 1 point, and it comes with a free bag.
Logged

lanceleoghauni

  • Bay Watcher
  • Purveyor of Ridiculous machinery.
    • View Profile
Re: Bentgirder: a stepping stone for new players
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2010, 11:12:41 pm »

I tend to go 2 miners, maxed level in mining and either masonry or detailing, a woodcutter/carpenter, Farmer/gatherer, Medic/Mechanic, Trader/manager/Record Keeper, and a Cook/Brewer.

I tend to get rid of all the medical stuff it starts you off with because you can use those points to buy things you'll need right away, like more seeds, booze, and a little more food. if you have to get rid of an axe and the anvil for more supplies.
Logged
"Mayor, the Nobles are complaining again!"

*Mayor facepalms*

"pull the lever of magmatic happiness"

Psieye

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Bentgirder: a stepping stone for new players
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2010, 05:38:23 am »

Normally I pay attention to each embark dwarf's personality profile as I choose which jobs to grab. But as this is for a newbie induction fort...

Miner/Trader/Architect/Misc
Miner/Weaponsmith
Carpenter/Mechanic
Farmer/Herbalist
Mason/Armourer
Warrior (will take on woodcutting in civilian life)
Artist (be it Gem Setter, Stonecrafter, Clothier or heck, why not everything?)

More importantly, in worldgen give much more embark points than usual. Embark with entire sets of gear to get them into the military fast. Wait, will this be in 40d or DF2010? Either way, let them have some gear at the start so they can play around with the Warrior against whatever wildlife there is but teach them about quality levels (the weapon/armoursmiths demonstrate what better quality items look like from the start). Let the Artist dwarf be in whatever industry you want to teach them first - sure we wouldn't ever put points into stonecrafting on embark, but this is an introduction so why not?
Logged
Military Training EXP Analysis
Congrats, Psieye. This is the first time I've seen a derailed thread get put back on the rails.

CppThis

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Bentgirder: a stepping stone for new players
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2010, 06:09:25 am »

My advice for a newbie package, coming from a newbie and in no particular order:

-For what its worth I use the Mayday tileset, havent tried others but it seems to get the job done and has a nice Super Nintendo type feel to it.  The people responsible for getting me hooked swear by it, too.  Be sure to explain that unlike pretty much every other game in existence, DF actually alt-tabs well so no trouble running fullscreen and tabbing out to check the wiki (Mayday won't work on 1024 resolution, which many people use, but it looks fine on 1280 on a small monitor cause the text is big...this took me literally several days to figure out).
-Wait a couple weeks for the next patch before really doing it for serious.  I've recommended DF to a few people, but with the stipulation that they wait until military is un-fubared because it's a massive buzzkill as is.  You dont want to spend all your advising timebasically saying "this is what is supposed to happen, but it doesnt because it's broke so here's a really hacky halfassed workaround".
-Disable invasions regardless of the above.  Include instructions on how to turn them on again.
-Add lots more embark points, and tweak worldgen parameters so there are less very hot and very cold regions.
-Don't have surface megabeasts show up until much later in the game--by default they'll show up pretty much as soon as you hit 80 dorfs.
-Speaking of which, tone down to pop cap to something more manageable.  50 might work well for a first stage, again instructions how to bump it up when they're more comfortable.
-Skills wise, be sure to include a proficient weaponsmith, armorsmith, mechanic, and carpenter.  The first two are comically difficult to raise, the third is just annoying, and a lot of areas dont have a lot of wood to practice on.  I honestly wouldnt put much in mining since theyre going to skill up fast anyway--just make sure you have 2-3 with the skill default-enabled and enough picks.  Ditto for all stone and food labors.
-I honestly wouldnt worry about any of the specialized professions.  Speaking from experience, a newbie isn't going to care or possibly even know about quality differences at first, theyll just want to know if their guys are making stuff.  And by the time they sorta know what's going on they should have one or more immigrant crafters, or otherwise have spammed enough basic jobs to produce one..  Do ensure you have a novice appraiser though, for item values.
-Include lots of steel bars, enough for a couple sets of armor.  This will kick-start military, and have them using much better gear than had you just included the equipment raw since your armorer will be pumping out mostly fine quality or better.  Ditto on a bunch of coal, since not all maps have ready access to fuel and they only cost 3 per.
-Include massive amounts of food and drink, due to the difficulty of the new farming system.  Account for the fact that they'll have 30+ dorfs without knowing why before the first year is up.
-Don't bring the cat unless you mod the raws to heavily reduce their breeding ability.  Which come to think of it, isnt such a bad idea...
-Consider using one of the various appointed-mayor tweaks.  Aside from fixing a current bug, it's one less thing a new player has to worry about--fire and forget leadership.
-Be sure to explain to them how saving and loading works, and how to reload saves and make backups.


edit: Another BIG thing I forgot to mention, Mayday is not compatible with .31.04.  I wouldnt class any of the fixes critical aside from possibly the no fish and shells thing (which you may want to mod so hoof or something works for moods), but its probably another reason to wait a bit until the kinks get ironed out.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2010, 06:17:54 am by CppThis »
Logged

CppThis

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Bentgirder: a stepping stone for new players
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2010, 06:10:14 am »

oops, doublepost
Logged

YellowPebble

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Bentgirder: a stepping stone for new players
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2010, 06:44:17 am »

I have Mayday working with 31.04, though admittedly it's the legacy version (I've no idea what the difference is, but I assume the legacy version includes the bugfixes, at any rate).
Logged

Psieye

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Bentgirder: a stepping stone for new players
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2010, 01:11:18 pm »

We missed 1 important consideration: 40d or DF2010? For newbies, I'd recommend giving them 40d to get used to the basics (embarking with a massive cache of raw materials offsets the scarcity of ore), then show then the wealth, horrors and bugs of DF2010.
Logged
Military Training EXP Analysis
Congrats, Psieye. This is the first time I've seen a derailed thread get put back on the rails.

scira

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Bentgirder: a stepping stone for new players
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2010, 01:27:10 pm »

Do not have them start in 2010, having to tell them "oh that doesn't work yet" a bunch isn't exactly thrilling.
Mining and woodcutting go up fast, you don't need a lot of point into them to start. Its nice to have each dorf have a point in wrestling (or axes for the woodcutter) so they don't get moody if they need to go into defense mode. I always have a dwarf with trader skills, but also give him 1 social skill so he is likely to become the leader and thus automatically in the positions.
Bring 2 picks and 1 axe, 2 dogs and 2 cats, get rid of pig tail seeds, get rid of plump helmets, make sure half the food is turtle, i am pretty sure it is whole turtle that gives shells when eaten.
you want a trader with low in a lot of skills, a herbalist and a grower with high skill, besides that nothing would be important for a newby.

Have their init options show hidden features by default.
Logged

Motigg

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Bentgirder: a stepping stone for new players
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2010, 02:13:34 pm »

I have Mayday working with 31.04, though admittedly it's the legacy version (I've no idea what the difference is, but I assume the legacy version includes the bugfixes, at any rate).
The Legacy version doesn't have the SDL and OpenGL changes in it if I remember correctly.  Graphics doesn't work with the version with em right now but that'll be fixed in a day or two when Toady throws 31.05 up.
Logged

CognitiveDissonance

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Bentgirder: a stepping stone for new players
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2010, 02:32:52 pm »

can't help you too much with the graphics; consider taking the default tileset, and just adding in the ITEM symbols from, oh i dunno, Mayday or anything else.

As far as the game goes, I vote for 2010. Consider setting up a fort 1-year in - make it walled inside, have some preemptive digging done, and let them open the gates to the outside.
Logged
Come and be amazed by this wonderful menagerie! Draw your own! Bring your favorite! The [Forgotten Beast Art Contest] is open for business!
Now also available - [The Legendary Artifact Art Contest]! It menaces! It has rings! It has craftsdwarfship!
I have a [YouTube] channel! It has Let's Plays and other stuff.

Old-one-eye

  • Bay Watcher
  • Good Day to you! Fhtagn!
    • View Profile
Re: Bentgirder: a stepping stone for new players
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2010, 02:33:02 pm »

What was df 2010? was it a version?
Logged
Quote from: breadbocks
ENRAGED
Quote from: Snook
Breadbocks has gone berserk!

Noble Digger

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Bentgirder: a stepping stone for new players
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2010, 02:43:48 pm »

What was df 2010? was it a version?

DF2010 was the tentative name given to the DF version scheduled for 2010 release (i.e. the current version). Now that it's out, most of us are calling it by its version number e.g. 31.04, 31.05. The DF wiki still refers to it as DF2010, but that's not any sort of official version number or name, you should feel comfortable ignoring that term in favor of a version number.
Logged
quib·ble
1. To evade the truth or importance of an issue by raising trivial distinctions and objections.
2. To find fault or criticize for petty reasons; cavil.

CppThis

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Bentgirder: a stepping stone for new players
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2010, 03:50:05 pm »

From what I know of the old military system I think DF2010 would actually be more intuitive for someone with RTS experience.  It's just buggy, but Toady will hopefully take a big bite out of that this month.
Logged

HAMMERMILL

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Bentgirder: a stepping stone for new players
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2010, 04:51:08 pm »

I'd be careful not to make it too safe and boring. Turning off invasions would make it pretty lame.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3