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Author Topic: Are magma pipes the same all the way down now?  (Read 1818 times)

C4lv1n

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Are magma pipes the same all the way down now?
« on: June 01, 2010, 01:43:21 pm »

In 40d magma pipes would change in shape every level, now all the ones I've found are the same shape all the way down, which makes it difficult to tap into them without sacrificing a dwarf.

Do they ever change? And does anyone have a way to tap into them without killing a dwarf?
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Alkyon

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Re: Are magma pipes the same all the way down now?
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2010, 01:50:13 pm »

They're all the same.  It was probably a compromise Toady made with the new caves to prevent accidental seepage or something.  Anyways, don't worry about losing dwarves.  A miner has no problem cutting out a single tile and fleeing before the magma catches up to him.  You have to remember that magma is not only naturally not under pressure, but flows slowly.
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Noble Digger

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Re: Are magma pipes the same all the way down now?
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2010, 02:41:11 pm »

I will admit along with the OP that the new volcano structure is inferior for construction (I'm not sure that Moonsyrups could have happened with the new type of volcanos) but everything possible then will still technically be possible. I like to do this:

########
########

~#X#++##
~###++##
~#X#++X+
~###++##
~#X#++##
########
########


You control each floodgate (maroon) separately. Note that the yellow hash mark represents a fire-safe door, which is placed for safety and removed later. You open the floodgates via a lever and send a brave miner to knock out the wall behind it (lime green) which is holding back the magma (red). Then, you shut the floodgates via the lever, and remove the safety doors once the floodgates close, preventing magma spillage. Since the diagram isn't clear on this, with this exact design you would siphon the magma from above this chamber with pumps. The floodgate to the right is for keeping the room locked off when it's full of magma, and can be used to crush any remaining magma once the inlet floodgates are shut. A fire-safe DOOR should be placed beside it, and locked manually when the room is in use for pumping.

« Last Edit: June 01, 2010, 02:49:02 pm by Noble Digger »
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ohgoditburns

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Re: Are magma pipes the same all the way down now?
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2010, 04:26:47 pm »

If you want to avoid all possibility of dwarf burnination, use a 2zlevel solution.

Dig your magma aqueduct on 1 level. Dig another access tunnel directly above it. The access tunnel should be accessible from above by stairs. From the access tunnel, channel out the wall to the magma pipe. The magma will first flow into the aqueduct, and only fill the access tunnel when the aqueduct is full. If your access tunnel is only accessible by stairs from above, it will never overflow.
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The landscape routinely being soaked in flammable fluids somehow seems less than benevolent.

Alkyon

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Re: Are magma pipes the same all the way down now?
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2010, 04:33:07 pm »

If you want to avoid all possibility of dwarf burnination, use a 2zlevel solution.

Dig your magma aqueduct on 1 level. Dig another access tunnel directly above it. The access tunnel should be accessible from above by stairs. From the access tunnel, channel out the wall to the magma pipe. The magma will first flow into the aqueduct, and only fill the access tunnel when the aqueduct is full. If your access tunnel is only accessible by stairs from above, it will never overflow.

Ah, hmm, that's an interesting idea.
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Hyndis

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Re: Are magma pipes the same all the way down now?
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2010, 04:45:22 pm »

You say that like sacrificing a dwarf is a bad thing.

I prefer smoothing out the stone and carving a fortification to breach the magma. I seal the dwarf in his new tomb, order him to smooth it out, engrave his own tomb, and then breach the magma.

Armok must have a sacrifice!
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thranguy

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Re: Are magma pipes the same all the way down now?
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2010, 07:19:25 pm »

Go to the top of the pipe, a couple of squares away from the opening, and dig a downward corkscrew to where you're going to want your magma to end up.  Forbid all of the tempting stone in your pipe and cistern, or else wait for dwarves to  take them to the appropriate stockpile. (You can build an upward stairway from the magma cistern to the fortress to help speed this up, but absolutely don't connect your tube to anything else.  Seal it off or put it behind a locked door when you're done.).  Finally, channel those squares between the opening and the top of your tube and wait for your cistern to fill with magma.  (Don't try this with water, though, since it retains pressure in ways magma doesn't.)

No magma-safe constructions required, no dwarves risked.
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Beeskee

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Re: Are magma pipes the same all the way down now?
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2010, 10:07:54 pm »

You can channel from the top to safely discover magma rather than digging from the side, too. :D Less to no risk that way. Remember to floor up the hole you made so nothing nasty crawls out.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: Are magma pipes the same all the way down now?
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2010, 11:12:21 pm »

Despite all the claims of safety, it isn't entirely true.

I channeled 3 exactly the same places today, with 3 different results.

Setup was    ...+.._mmmmm

. = Floor, + = Safety door, _ = channel, m=MAGMA

So I dug and channeled into the pipe to let it into larger areas in the z-level below, with the expectation of safety.

First guy completed his mission, got away unharmed.  Second guy lost a toe and his nose  ??? to the magma, got the fat burned off and whatnot, bled all over my escape tunnel, passed out, got up and was fine.  Third guy lost the upper half of his body and died.  The setups were identical.

So I'd say it definitely isn't totally safe, but it isn't guaranteed death either.

I would love a safer way to do it, but this isn't dangerous enough to bother me.

Oh, and as far as I can tell, and the wiki agrees, magma doesn't actually flow any slower than water. 
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lordnincompoop

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Re: Are magma pipes the same all the way down now?
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2010, 04:53:38 am »

I actually like that it's uniform, now. It wasn't much harder from an architectural standpoint; just unappealing and a pain in the a** to design around.
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Halo

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Re: Are magma pipes the same all the way down now?
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2010, 05:55:57 am »

I just dig up to the magma, setup floodgates, open floodgates, and send someone in to breach the pipe.

In 40d I would lose 9 out of 10 dwarves I sent in to breach the magma. As such, I would designate a lye maker or something to be a miner, and disable mining on all my real miners. In the current version, I lose maybe 1 out of 10. In fact I've only lost one, who heroically managed to throw his (steel pick) out past the closing floodgates before dying. Excellent priorities.
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ohgoditburns

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Re: Are magma pipes the same all the way down now?
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2010, 10:26:18 am »

Setup was    ...+.._mmmmm

If the channeled square didn't lead to a tunnel, it would have pretty much immediately filled, allowing the magma to continue along the top tunnel without sufficient time for the dwarf to escape.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: Are magma pipes the same all the way down now?
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2010, 11:11:28 am »

The dwarf that got his face burned and lived actually had the largest room beneath him.  They all had some space down there, as the whole point was filling rooms (1 z level down) with magma so I could open floodgates later as part of a trap.
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Quatch

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Re: Are magma pipes the same all the way down now?
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2010, 12:31:39 pm »


Setup was    ...+.._mmmmm

. = Floor, + = Safety door, _ = channel, m=MAGMA


My understanding of channeling a solid wall is that it will be dug out, then the floor below breached, in two seperate steps. Is this causing your miner to wait around long enough to be burned? Perhaps he steps down into the magma for a second (that won't kill him), and then runs back up the ramp and to safety?

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Urist McBrannigan

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Re: Are magma pipes the same all the way down now?
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2010, 12:44:07 pm »

Smooth and carve fortification works like a charm.
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