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[Lonewolf I]

Votecount Please

Unvote

Fuck you, Jim. You're a tunneling bastard and you're slowly starting to feel the pressure. You've been giving off scum-ass vibes all game and I'm glad someone else has noticed. Unvote Toaster.

I have to wonder just exactly what the fuck you think you are doing. Don't invite the obvscum to join your wagon. He might just oblige. Let him make that decision on his own, and then let him take the heat for it.

Exactly why I'm not voting you.

You're trying to bait me into something. Jim, I know for a fact that I'm not scum. I can't prove it to you because you have so much more experience than me, you're just going to turn anything I do into a scumtell. Whatever I'm doing, you're simply extolling as "scummy" and using it to crucify me in the eyes of the other less-experienced players.

You're the most diabolical kind of scum. If I wind up dying without being able to convince everyone of just how scummy you are, then I hope that you people will have the sense to listen to me and hang Jim next. I'm willing to stake my life on it.

If you think he's scum, why not vote him?  How could he possibly benefit from having your vote on him?

Jim:  Re Jokerman:  A fair point.  However, I'm much more sure about Lonewolf.  I've suspected him for some time, and I am convinced he needs to hang today.  I'll figure out which of the other three (you, Bandages, Jokerman) isn't scum in the meantime.

Anyway, to review the case against Lonewolf:

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=58449.msg1479413#msg1479413
In this post (and the next few) LW votes Person with an attack, then quickly changes his vote to Cript.  He never follows up on his attack on Person.

D2, when pressed on this, gives this response:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=58449.msg1518936#msg1518936

The quote pyramid has pretty much all his D2 content, other than his vote on Org for being noncommittal.  That attack of his is barely pressed at all.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=58449.msg1526538#msg1526538
D3, his first post he jumps back to Person, with no reasoning.  He also posts a pointless defense of Jim.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=58449.msg1527085#msg1527085
Here he finally gives his (weak) reasoning.  Note toothless suspicion thrown on abc.

After that, he claims, posts twice with zero content, and that's it.

This is pretty much his whole posting history.  He's been trying to active lurk the whole game without drawing attention to himself.  His attacks are weak and his reasoning bad to nonexistant.  He needs to hang today.

Active lurk without drawing attention to myself?  Is that what my first D3 post was?  As for the activelurking since then, I'd say it's justified as it's been over the weekend, and I was more concerned with keeping up with and comprehending the back-and-forth between Jim and Leaf than I was with posting.

Mr.P and Leaf have provided acceptable defenses.  Jokerman and Bandages are my current picks for scum.  I'd like to hold off on sharing my reasons for Jokerman for the moment.  Bandages is confusing me, as I don't see how I'm anywhere near confirmed town and I think I might be getting buddied poorly.  I'm not sure who the third might be.

[webadict]

Vote Count
------------------------
Toaster - Leafsnail,
Lonewolf I - Mr.Person, Toaster,
Mr.Person - Jim Groovester, Bandages,
Jim Groovester -
Jokerman-EXE - Lonewolf I,
Leafsnail - SirBayer,
SirBayer -
Bandages -

Not voting - Jokerman-EXE,

Day ends on Tuesday 9 PM Central. 2 Extensions And 1 Shorten Requested.

[Jim Groovester]

Mr.P and Leaf have provided acceptable defenses.  Jokerman and Bandages are my current picks for scum.  I'd like to hold off on sharing my reasons for Jokerman for the moment.  Bandages is confusing me, as I don't see how I'm anywhere near confirmed town and I think I might be getting buddied poorly.  I'm not sure who the third might be.

You're really stretching the doubt I'm giving you for motivating me.

It's milo, buddy. You don't hold back the reasons you're voting people.

[Leafsnail]

And I'm thinking... Leafsnail. This is a gut feeling sort of thing, and as I have shown above, I've very little evidence on the matter. I, however, have a few reasons.

1. The gut thing. Durh.

Hm... would you mind sobering up, then posting again?

2. Coordination with Mr. Person's attacks. No, you're not saying the same thing, and no, I'm not convinced he's scum, but I'm not convinced he's not either. Furthermore, I get this feeling like you're dragging at Jim Groovester because he's been one of the big players in this game - one of the loud folks. You're trying to hit big, noisy targets.

I'm trying to think of how you justify the first sentence of this.  Oh wait, you don't.  And I'm trying to think how "going for a big player" is a scumtell.  I can't.

2.5. Oh hey, upon review, you're defending each other. Now ain't that interesting? Defending each other from a noisy player... wonder what you're trying to accomplish?

I'm not defending anyone, just stopping Jim's endless torrent of bullshit.

3. You've made a point of avoiding interaction with this fellow attacker of yours. There hasn't been any acknowledgement, even, that the other one is making advances. There hasn't been any discussion about this theoretical scumbucketitude, and I'm starting to think that you're purposely avoiding it.

But... you just said I was defending him?  Man, your thoughts aren't even internally consistent.

4. Your insistence that Jim is "obvscum" despite the fact that you're trawling deep and interpreting more into it than an English professor into Catcher in the Rye. <(Terrible book.) I see a lot of arguments, but I don't see a lot of...

I was going to say I had some question about these arguments, but then I did some quick review, and changed my mind. Given that Ablacutter was putting off vague scumtells at the beginning, it's not so far-fetched that you've picked up a scum game here, Leafy.

So... because a newb acts like a newb, I'm scum?

What the hell is wrong with you?

And I feel like I've done all I can do, now.  I've made my points, Jim continues to react hypocritically.  It's up to the town to make the right decision now.

[Lonewolf I]

Mr.P and Leaf have provided acceptable defenses.  Jokerman and Bandages are my current picks for scum.  I'd like to hold off on sharing my reasons for Jokerman for the moment.  Bandages is confusing me, as I don't see how I'm anywhere near confirmed town and I think I might be getting buddied poorly.  I'm not sure who the third might be.

You're really stretching the doubt I'm giving you for motivating me.

It's milo, buddy. You don't hold back the reasons you're voting people.

Eh? I just wanted to see the votecount before I moved forward.  Couldn't hint that it had to do with my suspicions of Jokerman directly as I didn't want him to have a chance to act.  I suspected his not revoting might have been due to some role interference.  It does not appear to be so.

One more question before I move forward:  Have you claimed yet, Jim?  Yes or no.  I don't remember and I don't want to go back and search for something that may or may not be there.

[webadict]

Vote Count
------------------------
Toaster - Leafsnail,
Lonewolf I - Mr.Person, Toaster,
Mr.Person - Jim Groovester, Bandages,
Jim Groovester -
Jokerman-EXE - Lonewolf I,
Leafsnail - SirBayer,
SirBayer -
Bandages -

Not voting - Jokerman-EXE,

Day ends on Tuesday 9 PM Central. 2 Extensions And 1 Shorten Requested.

Day Extended to Thursday 9 PM Central.

[Bandages]

Jesus this day is going on forever.

Unvote

But now I'm mildly confused about how everything's working. Lonewolf, are you denying that you are town? I guess it could make sense for a mafia to get a generic positive role, but my gut instinct was that it was more of a town thing (based on the fact that all the town roles so far have been positive or neutral).

If you want to contend that you're town... be my guest? Lonewolf I

[Toaster]

It's just a bit of metagaming, as well as some intuition. I cannot factually prove to you that Lonewolf is another town member, but the fact that he has a role that effects others positively, as well as the fact that he used it on random people. Call me paranoid, but I would think that a mafia would only use that role on themselves or their partner so they have that "OSHI-" buffer if things go south, or if they need to "ahlly-yoop" for the SLAM-DUNK on a townie.

Long story short, metagaming his role and how he's used it makes me think he's town.

I get to give someone an extra vote at night, to be used the following day.  I forgot to do it N1, and N2 I stuck it on Jim.

Do I need to draw you a picture as to the problem here?

PPE- I see your vote there, and I'm sticking with this comment.

Fuck off.  Toaster is still obvscum for backing away from me.  You're still obvscum in every way imaginable (including this bizarre non argument here).

I gave you my reasons for backing off of you (I tried to tear apart your attacks and realized I couldn't) and for attacking someone else.  If that's not good enough for you, too bad.  Bayer, same to you.

Active lurk without drawing attention to myself?  Is that what my first D3 post was?  As for the activelurking since then, I'd say it's justified as it's been over the weekend, and I was more concerned with keeping up with and comprehending the back-and-forth between Jim and Leaf than I was with posting.

Mr.P and Leaf have provided acceptable defenses.  Jokerman and Bandages are my current picks for scum.  I'd like to hold off on sharing my reasons for Jokerman for the moment.  Bandages is confusing me, as I don't see how I'm anywhere near confirmed town and I think I might be getting buddied poorly.  I'm not sure who the third might be.

Posting one post that could be said to be not active lurking does not excuse the rest of your game.

I too would love to hear your reasoning on Jokerman.  FYI- Jim hasn't claimed.

[Lonewolf I]

Whether or not I'm town is not the question.  It's whether or not I'm confirmed.  I don't think I am.  The only reason I can think of that you would is if you were buddying.

[Jim Groovester]

One more question before I move forward:  Have you claimed yet, Jim?  Yes or no.  I don't remember and I don't want to go back and search for something that may or may not be there.

No. I have not claimed.

[Bandages]

Well it's impossible to actually confirm you as town until/if you flip. I just don't see why a mafia would get a group beneficial role. :|

Toaster, I'm a lazy guy. So sue me if I should have said random "person" instead of "people"

Unless of course Lonewolf is in fact mafia and Jim is his scumbuddy.

Arghhh I have never gotten this far in a mafia game and it's too confusing. Everyone seems like a mafia, now. >_<

[Lonewolf I]

Unvote

I just realized I'm thinking about this all wrong.  Why didn't scum push through a Mr.P lynch just now?  A quick Oppose Extension followed by one or two more Shortens would've had the game in the bag if he was town.

Mr.Person is scum simply because he's not dead right now.

[Jim Groovester]

But what if the scum don't end up winning with Mr. Person's lynch because of vote mechanics and they have to answer for what they did tomorrow? They'd be in a spot of trouble if that happened.

Doing that would also require coordination with the mod, something that isn't always available.

[Toaster]

Unvote

I just realized I'm thinking about this all wrong.  Why didn't scum push through a Mr.P lynch just now?  A quick Oppose Extension followed by one or two more Shortens would've had the game in the bag if he was town.

Mr.Person is scum simply because he's not dead right now.

That's a least three or four bottles of wine, there.  I think you just looked for a reason to unhop your vote.

Again, where are your suspicions of Jokerman?

[Lonewolf I]

They didn't make sense to me in light of MyLo on review.  I doubt they'd make sense to anyone else.