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[marcusbjol]

Everything is possible.

Not sure where I heard the 42 degree thing (I think that is why the pyrmadids are build to that angle as well)... but the point is, if I make a sand pile in my basement and lock the door, the pile will still be a pile and it not have flattened out.  It is not a fluid. 

The point here is - What value to the end user is there given the work required to make it happen?

Simple?  Fix the Code?  The easiest fix I can see with this is a tripling memory requirements for liquids and lots of computations.

Memory - right now the code sees magma or water in a tile and depth.  Not both. 

PS - Just did some research... its between 30 and 37 degrees.

So now we gotta keep track of sand, water, and magma, and make sure the depth of all 3 never is greater than 7.  Oh now we gotta redo the mechanic to create obsidian...

Not easy.  Just for the occasional flowing sand?  There is only so many hours in the day, and I would rather Toady and the crew focused on other things.

[Misterstone]

A lot of the mechanics in DF seem pointless until you play the game and see it work in an interesting and fun way.  Sand has a lot of potential for this.  Also, if we're going to be consistent with the depth of realism that is already prevalent in the game, sand flows need to be modeled at some point (as they will according to the dev).  I don't see why this has to be controversial...

[Rowanas]

If you pour water
It does not flow forever
Water tension rules.

[Tehran]

Is Toady ever going to make air be a gas? I greatly doubt it.

Advantages of air as a gas:
-Temperature can be transmitted through it.
-Wind?
-Air will stop water from flowing upward if there's nowhere for the air to go. (yay!)

Disadvantages:
-Awful to code
-It will murder your computer

And now, a true story:

Oops, air has volume.
Water bottle overflows...
"Damn you, Dwarf Fortress."

[goffrie]

This is a very interesting idea. However, I think that there might be a performance issue with pathfinding. Every time sand moves, pathing data (e.g. the connectedness graph) would have to be recalculated, which, if I'm not mistaken, is a major performance hit.

[NW_Kohaku]

This is a very interesting idea. However, I think that there might be a performance issue with pathfinding. Every time sand moves, pathing data (e.g. the connectedness graph) would have to be recalculated, which, if I'm not mistaken, is a major performance hit.

You're misunderstanding how pathing is handled - there is no stored connectedness graph, and every individual unit has to launch a pathfinding routine every time it tries to move anywhere, specifically because the game is built with the assumption that the terrain will change rapidly.

[RCIX]

I really like this idea! +1

[Draco18s]

You're misunderstanding how pathing is handled - there is no stored connectedness graph, and every individual unit has to launch a pathfinding routine every time it tries to move anywhere, specifically because the game is built with the assumption that the terrain will change rapidly.

There is a stored connectedness graph, as sections of the map are flood-filled (and saved) to determine if two locations can path to each other.

However, some units (I'm guessing any that can fly) ignore this and attempt to path anyway.

[Osmosis Jones]

They don't. A flyer cannot get anywhere a dwarf couldn't reach, they can just reach connected areas more rapidly. I use this regularly to explore & traverse the underground without losing dwarves to the flying creatures down there.

[Draco18s]

They don't. A flyer cannot get anywhere a dwarf couldn't reach, they can just reach connected areas more rapidly. I use this regularly to explore & traverse the underground without losing dwarves to the flying creatures down there.

Then how do you explain reveal.exe'ing a map and having the HFS fly up to the top of the tubes?  Shouldn't they fail path checks because their area is disconnected?

[Osmosis Jones]

Dunno, but I have repeatedly had the undead fun fly right past my dwarves on an overlooking ledge, then, the second I make a walkable path, have them turn and start attacking.

[cephalo]

This idea would give us a whole new challenging aspect to DF. I like it! It could be used for muck and mud too, for swamps and stuff.

[jaked122]

this is almost the exact same thing as the water physics... although I see how it differs in what causes the sand to flow

[atomfullerene]

Sand (and soil) really should allow water to flow through them, like an aquifer (real life, not DF version) Dealing with this would probably be more trouble than it's worth, although you could expand it to make the actual aquifers a bit more realistic.

[Aspgren]

Urist McMiner like shale Opal, ivory and quartz. He absolutely detests lizards and sand.

Urist McMiner has been unhappy lately. He endured sand recently.

Inventory: sand covering (eyes, nose, ears, mouth, EVERYTHING!)