Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[John D. Ward]

I know it doesn't appear to fit the world of Dwarf Fortress, but consider this.

All the raw materials and many of the components are now available, after a few new components have been defined, to build dynamos driven by water or wind power.  

This would have interesting possibilities in connection with the Fire and Lighting Arc.  The psychological effects on visiting diplomats and traders might also be interesting; as Arthur C. Clarke said "Any smoothly functioning technology will have the appearance of magic".

[herrbdog]

Actually, he said, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Similar, but not quite the same meaning.

[Wahnsinniger]

Eh, adding actual electricity (as opposed to weather or magical lightning) really starts to get away from the fantasy concept. There really shouldn't be aluminum in DF as is, since until a few hundred years ago aluminum was virtually unknown.

[Reign on your Parade]

Ah, but in a Fantasy setting, who do you think is most likely to know about it?

[Capntastic]

I find it completely incomprehensible that everyone wants to add all this steampunk stuff that does nothing to increase gameplay and really just boils down to gloss for better things like (electricty = torches and lanterns, steam powered golems = kobold/elven slaves), and stuff.  

As for aluminum, it's a completely different thing because it's a nifty metal, and may have some interesting qualities in the future.   Not everything has to be especially useful, though.

[Captain Failmore]

quote:Originally posted by Wahnsinniger:
<STRONG>There really shouldn't be aluminum in DF as is, since until a few hundred years ago aluminum was virtually unknown.</STRONG>

That's what made aluminum so neat way back when. Extracting it from ore really was unheard of, but aluminum did occur naturally in a metallic form - and was extraordinarily rare. Before modern extraction processes were developed, aluminum was so rare it was considered a precious metal, and was actually more valuable than gold. Really, I like the idea of being able to find it in the Dwarf Fortress world, maybe in small pockets or lumps in igneous rock formations. Fine crafts could be produced from it and sold or used to decorate the quarters of some lucky bastard living in your palatial hole in the ground.

[BurnedToast]

quote:Originally posted by Capntastic:
<STRONG>I find it completely incomprehensible that everyone wants to add all this steampunk stuff that does nothing to increase gameplay and really just boils down to gloss for better things like (electricty = torches and lanterns, steam powered golems = kobold/elven slaves), and stuff.  

As for aluminum, it's a completely different thing because it's a nifty metal, and may have some interesting qualities in the future.   Not everything has to be especially useful, though.</STRONG>

and I find it completely incomprehensible that people DON'T want steampunk stuff and firearms and electricity and dwarven robots.

It's a matter of opinion, and the only one that counts is Toady's. if he wants it, it will get added eventually and if he does not then it won't. Saying you don't like it is pointless.

[Felix the Cat]

I'd honestly probably stop playing DF if it started going steampunk.

There's a very firm line between stuff that is merely "mechanical" and stuff that is "too advanced". A mine trolley is mechanical. A steam-powered steel robot that mines for you and steam-powered steel helper robots that haul things for you are too advanced.

Basically, if it wasn't around before the 1300s or so, it probably doesn't belong in Dwarf Fortress.

[apache1990]

If there were electricity in DF, I'd prefer it if all you could really do was arc it off stuff.  Like random artificial lightning.  Anything else, and it gets to advanced for the year 1050.  Maybe if you get a fortress to last until 1950, then you can have more modern stuff.

[Bien]

I have an idea in my head
The goblin crosses the bridge over electrified water and the dwarf on the other side pulls a lever, making the bridge retract, dumping him into the water, unfortunately the water is electrified, electrocuting him!

[ November 03, 2007: Message edited by: Bien ]

[Asehujiko]

quote:Originally posted by Felix the Cat:
<STRONG>I'd honestly probably stop playing DF if it started going steampunk.

There's a very firm line between stuff that is merely "mechanical" and stuff that is "too advanced". A mine trolley is mechanical. A steam-powered steel robot that mines for you and steam-powered steel helper robots that haul things for you are too advanced.

Basically, if it wasn't around before the 1300s or so, it probably doesn't belong in Dwarf Fortress.</STRONG>

*grabs history book*
*pages thru middle ages*
...
Can't find hairy drunken midgets who dig cities into mountains.
Can't find pointy eared ecoterrorists that live in trees.
Can't find undead.
Can't find etc.

So if it's "advanced", it's bad? I guess that's why 40k is so popular.

[Dae]

40k was meant to be SF from the beggining. The only difference with Warhammer is the background. They weren't made for the same people I think.
And Dwarf Fortress has a Heroic-Fantasy universe. I mean, mixing Fantasy with SF has already spoiled games before, it has to be handled very carefully.

In a game, magic changes the rules that apply to a non-magical world. Tower-cap grows in 3 years? Let's make it grow in one. Let's make rain fall in a less randomly way. Magic just changes the previous rules of the game : in the core, it is said that your adventurer dwarf can't fly. He hasn't got the [FLIER] tag. With magic, you put the txt out of your business and you sort of add it to your dwarf.
That's why magic has to come last I think.
Meanwhile, technology can be used the same way. Just find a non-magical reason : tower-caps will grow faster because you gave it some special fertilizer. And your dwarf will fly because of some anti-grav thing. The problem is a player will always prefer one instead of the other one, and when they'll see the part they like less, it won't do the trick.

If a heroic-fantasy-styled lich was found in 40k, not knowing what all those spaceships are, you'd just be like, What the fuck does it do here?

[qwertyuiopas]

So the best option, would be to add all the fancy tech, but make each race either:
a) have to discover it, from other races or on their own
or
b) have a tag in the raws that makes them start out with technology(not used by default, but can be added by players who WANT steam powered golems controlled by the machines from the matrix)
or
c) an init option for tech and an optional year limit limiting when they discover technology until after a certain time.

note that all of that can be applied to magic for almost the same reasons.

also note that magic already exists, and dwarves can use it. Its called a SCREW PUMP until a pump can only pump 1 unit of water off the other square and can not compress 100 units of water into 7.

[Sukasa]

Some *good* uses I see for electricity are:

Powering screw pumps where you can't get an axle to them
Lighting
Electricity traps

Of course, you'd need something like a generator to produce electric power, and perhaps be able to use levers to turn power on and off...

But yea, an init entry like [ELECTRICITY:ON/OFF/DATE] would be nice.  Those who want Dwarf Fortress can have it.  Those who want Neo-Dwarf Fortress can have that.  Those who want Cave-Dwarf Fortress can have that ([MECHANICS:ON/OFF/DATE]).

[BDR]

I gotta agree that technology/magic, while awesome things and which can conceivably go pretty far, should be controllable in the raws.  Personally, having both tech and magic appeals to me quite a bit (Shadowrun), but I appreciate that not everybody likes both (and not everyone thinks both is a dwarfy thing to come up with).