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[Untelligent]

I'm confused as to why kobolds don't have any hair. Aren't they supposed to be like little dogpeople critters?

[Karnewarrior]

I'm confused as to why kobolds don't have any hair. Aren't they supposed to be like little dogpeople critters?

There are thousands of little bald men stealing my shit.

[Deimos56]

There are thousands of little bald men stealing my shit.

I think I'm going to sig this now.

[Nexii Malthus]

Since treason is unthinkable to them, there must either be an incredibly high taboo against treason, but unless they have a well developed system of language they have very little means by which to communicate the idea of that taboo.

Why does a taboo have to be socially driven? Especially in this case. There are many genetic drivers out there, Ants for example cooperate together, because it is to the benefit of the hive, they have evolved to that design, not because they went to the pub and wrote the idea on a napkin. There are many things that are pre-programmed into the brain via genetics.

[Jualin]

Why does a taboo have to be socially driven? Especially in this case. There are many genetic drivers out there, Ants for example cooperate together, because it is to the benefit of the hive, they have evolved to that design, not because they went to the pub and wrote the idea on a napkin. There are many things that are pre-programmed into the brain via genetics.

I prefer for taboos to be socially driven because for the taboos to be genetically driven there usually has to be some large evolutionary advantage for them to become as such. As such, to establish some sort of background to the creatures I feel that you also have to derive the situation the progenitors of the kobold race were in that necessitated such a strong taboo that it would be completely unthinkable instead of merely highly discouraged. To me, that seems somewhat contrived.

But yes, you have a point. It was mostly personal preference on my part.

[Kogan Loloklam]

...

They otherwise ignore the kobold and that's sorta like a shun thing.  But if it was a shun instead of an exile they would probably leave the shunned kobold's kill alone instead of stealing it from him.  Unlike an exile a shunned kobold would still be able to hunt in the area, he would just be driven away from kills made by others.

There is a punishment called "Shun". Kobolds do not use it. Murder is Exile, not shun. If you don't like it, change your raws.

[Greiger]

There is a punishment called "Shun". Kobolds do not use it. Murder is Exile, not shun. If you don't like it, change your raws.

Why so aggressive?

I'm just talking about how I figure an exile would work in a kobold group.  Not so much different from what other groups would describe as a shunning, but the kobold is forced to exile themselves if they want to survive, a shunned kobold is just ignored, an exiled kobold is actively driven away from food and shelter in the area.  it's not like the kobolds would be able to put grunts and such together to tell the kobold he's exiled.

And I'm aware there is no shun ethics for kobolds, I was attempting to preempt any posts saying I was just describing a shunning by stating what I feel the difference would be.  Which apperantly failed.

If you don't like it, ignore my post.

[shome]

I'm just talking about how I figure an exile would work in a kobold group.  Not so much different from what other groups would describe as a shunning, but the kobold is forced to exile themselves if they want to survive, a shunned kobold is just ignored, an exiled kobold is actively driven away from food and shelter in the area.  it's not like the kobolds would be able to put grunts and such together to tell the kobold he's exiled.

I think the difference here is the lack of a kobold settlement.  In other, settlement based civilizations(human, dwarf etc), a shunned person would be excluded from features of the settlement(trade, religion, government)
but still be allowed to stay, whereas an exiled person would be kicked out.

With the removal of formal settlement, the distinction is removed or becomes irrelevant.

[Kogan Loloklam]

Exile is a removal from the group, shunning isn't.
Exile results in killing if caught in their territory. Shunning is ignoring when it happens.

It's a pretty big difference, and it's the reason why the raws have exile rather than shun. If you think exile is the same as shun in Kobolds, what would changing it to shun be, disapproval? Why not just use 'Shun' instead?

Lack of a formal site doesn't eliminate the group as an entity, and as they say, home is where the stolen loot is stashed.

[de5me7]

just a question - where do kobold civ names come from? They are in a different language to all other civ names, so presumably the name cannot be translated into what ever the dorfs speak, and there fore does not originate with the dorfs. Do the other races (elves, goblins, Umans) speak the same language, i assume so, as they do in adventure mode.

Animal civs on the other hand - have unknown civ as their civ name

[Karnewarrior]

just a question - where do kobold civ names come from? They are in a different language to all other civ names, so presumably the name cannot be translated into what ever the dorfs speak, and there fore does not originate with the dorfs. Do the other races (elves, goblins, Umans) speak the same language, i assume so, as they do in adventure mode.

Animal civs on the other hand - have unknown civ as their civ name

Kobold speech & names = random

[Dude_Jebawe]

I see Kobolds somewhat like this:

Kobolds are a primitive, but sapient, species of bipedal canines living in tribal societies. Since every day is a struggle for survival every material good is used for the good of the tribe, and the concept of "personal property" is completely alien to them. As such, they have no concept of "theft" either.

Kobolds live a harsh life, and trust is reserved for member of their own tribe. Once the trust is broken, it can never be regained, and the offending Kobold is driven away from the tribe's territory. Since Kobold tribes do not trust outsiders, and other races certainly do not trust Kobolds, a Kobold has nothing to gain from betraying it's tribe, and the thought would not even occur to most of them.

Kobolds are constantly in danger of death, being despised as vermin by the "higher" races, and this leaves little time for empathy. Kobolds have been known to torture other individuals, often taking great glee in such acts. An interesting note is that Kobolds do not usually think of extracting information in this manner, or of using it to set examples, or to establish dominance.

Kobolds prefer to settle disputes with each other peacefully, though their suspicious nature makes this difficult, and fights are far from uncommon. These fights are rarely to the death; lethal blows would betray the limited trust of the community the Kobold depends upon to survive in a hostile world.

Eh, that's it for now. Thoughts?

[Bloogonis]

Kobolds are a primitive, but sapient, species of bipedal canines living in tribal societies...

I agree with everything you say except for that bolded bit. I understand that early DnD had them Dog like before they became lizards, and other fantasy settings have them as anything from humanoids to mole people. In DF Kobolds are Reptomamilians sort of an intermediary evolutionary stage between reptiles and mammals.

I know everyone can visualize it however they want, it just that this is what Toady has said and is becoming(if not already) the general consensus of those who are not attaching Kobold imagery from other fantasy sources, which are clearly not in agreement with eachother.

This structure has been modified and explored over time and the best image Ive seen of one is this

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Its much more grimdark then the Cutebolds but maintains a large amount of the anatomy that has lead to the current standing image of the DF Kobold.

[Maggarg - Eater of chicke]

Kobolds are vermin I despise only slightly less than goblins and elves. Then again, they are a nice little distraction.

[Koji]

I would most closely compare kobolds to Jawas, from Star Wars. They also remind me of rats and mice, if any of you have ever kept these animals.

The "torture" ethic might be related more to how a cat plays with its food. A hunting kobold might inflict nonfatal wounds on its pray out of curiosity or some sort of innate behavior, but he's not waterboarding elves and demanding to know when Jringis will occur.

Rats and mice live in communal families where each member has a place that they maintain by engaging in social activities (grooming and mating) or by fighting. Generally one male will be recognized as the dominant figure in his group, with other males vying for his position or simply letting him have the lion's share of the food and mating rights. The females live a bit apart and share responsibility for raising young and finding food. Something is only "yours" so long as you are holding it, and a dropped or stolen item is pretty much immediately forgotten. Some species, like the packrat, seek out colorful or shiny items to add to their nest for no apparent reason. These animals posess complex vocalizations, can laugh, sing (in the manner that birds sing, rather than whales or people) and recognize more than 100 distinct individuals in their social group.