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[Pilsu]

• Remove concentration skill. This is presumably already covered by the self-discipline personality trait.
• Remove student skill. If the skill is deemed necessary, use other existing skills in the category of the taught skill instead. For instance, a masterful woodcrafter would learn carpentry extremely quickly and an axeman likely would have no trouble grasping how to use a sword effectively. Categories aren't perfect seeing as bowmen would somehow be prodigies in swordsmanship but it's still better than an entirely redundant, unrealistic, pointless skill.
• Remove archer skill. There should be no synergy between the different classes of ranged weapons seeing as they are fundamentally different from one another.

By the way, do dabbling skills disappear with rust? If not, they should.

[Daywalkah]

By the way, do dabbling skills disappear with rust? If not, they should.

I don't think they do disappear, but they shouldn't in my opinion. Someone may forget how to use a skill, but they have the ability to remember how to do it.

[Pilsu]

Dabbling means irregular or superficial work. It should disappear if the dwarf doesn't use the skill in years, otherwise it means nothing. Retaining knowledge is a another matter entirely and can be handled better.

It's just a tad irritating to have useless information displayed. Knowing that a dwarf bit someone when he was 3 and retains the skill 30 years later isn't helpful and just serves to clutter the interface.

[orbcontrolled]

Knowing that a dwarf bit someone when he was 3 and retains the skill 30 years later isn't helpful and just serves to clutter the interface.

Maybe the interface should hide skills below a certain level.

[Daywalkah]

Whoops, I read the post too fast. Higher level skills should not disappear completely and dabbling skills should not even be displayed unless the task is done a number of times.

[EyeOfNundinate]

• Remove concentration skill. This is presumably already covered by the self-discipline personality trait.

There is is a difference between self-disipline, one involves the deligence to do something without getting off task, the other is about trying to do precise, and accurate work

• Remove student skill. If the skill is deemed necessary, use other existing skills in the category of the taught skill instead. For instance, a masterful woodcrafter would learn carpentry extremely quickly and an axeman likely would have no trouble grasping how to use a sword effectively. Categories aren't perfect seeing as bowmen would somehow be prodigies in swordsmanship but it's still better than an entirely redundant, unrealistic, pointless skill.

The student skill is useful in learning, teachers give you part-ideas, it is your job as a student to arrange them accordingly so that you can understand it, basically, how well can you learn from others. You seem to be going off into the distance with synergies.

• Remove archer skill. There should be no synergy between the different classes of ranged weapons seeing as they are fundamentally different from one another.

Archery is about crossbows, and bows, everything else is lopped off and placed into a general raanged category, does this fit your taste?
[/list]

By the way, do dabbling skills disappear with rust? If not, they should.

[clockwork]

I think there should be more skills.

[Daywalkah]

I agree with EyeOfNundinate.

[Pilsu]

There is is a difference between self-disipline, one involves the deligence to do something without getting off task, the other is about trying to do precise, and accurate work

Meaning what exactly?

The student skill is useful in learning, teachers give you part-ideas, it is your job as a student to arrange them accordingly so that you can understand it, basically, how well can you learn from others. You seem to be going off into the distance with synergies.

You don't magically become better at learning just by being taught. There are some learning tricks but those have nothing to do with this. The skill makes no sense.

Archery is about crossbows, and bows, everything else is lopped off and placed into a general raanged category, does this fit your taste?

No. The only thing crossbows might have any real synergy with are guns and those don't exist in the game.

[Daywalkah]

The student skill is useful in learning, teachers give you part-ideas, it is your job as a student to arrange them accordingly so that you can understand it, basically, how well can you learn from others. You seem to be going off into the distance with synergies.

You don't magically become better at learning just by being taught. There are some learning tricks but those have nothing to do with this. The skill makes no sense.

The student probably does what EyeOfNundinate says. Toady One just added it into the game, and he probably added it assuming that this is what students do.

Archery is about crossbows, and bows, everything else is lopped off and placed into a general raanged category, does this fit your taste?

No. The only thing crossbows might have any real synergy with are guns and those don't exist in the game.

Bows and crossbows require aiming. Archery is aiming, or if not, it at least helps aiming.

[Chthonic]

• Remove concentration skill. This is presumably already covered by the self-discipline personality trait.

Self-discipline and concentration are similar, but not the same.  I don't know how they're implemented in DF, but self-discipline is the ability to ignore internal distractions and desires, while concentration is the ability to ignore external distractions.  For example, the dwarf is hungry (or lazy) but is self disciplined enough to keep working.  Or the dwarf is working in a noisy environment, but is focused enough (has the concentration) to shut out the noise and keep at it.

• Remove student skill. If the skill is deemed necessary, use other existing skills in the category of the taught skill instead. For instance, a masterful woodcrafter would learn carpentry extremely quickly and an axeman likely would have no trouble grasping how to use a sword effectively. Categories aren't perfect seeing as bowmen would somehow be prodigies in swordsmanship but it's still better than an entirely redundant, unrealistic, pointless skill.

Communication is a two way street--a teacher must present information, but a student has to be prepared to receive it.  Some people are quicker to learn than others.  A student skill is entirely reasonable.  If you want cognate areas, it should be an addition, not a replacement.

• Remove archer skill. There should be no synergy between the different classes of ranged weapons seeing as they are fundamentally different from one another.

Again, I'm not sure if this is how the DF skill works, but an "archer" skill should probably encompass various related tasks like judging distance, picking out targets, timing shots, et cetera.  These are going to be universal across ranged weapons.

[Safe-Keeper]

Communication is a two way street--a teacher must present information, but a student has to be prepared to receive it.  Some people are quicker to learn than others.  A student skill is entirely reasonable.  If you want cognate areas, it should be an addition, not a replacement.

Agree with this. Sure, you should be able to, for example, learn brewery faster if you're already a cook, or tanning if you're a butcher, but the student skill is still realistic and useful.

[EyeOfNundinate]

Spoiler: -snip- (click to show/hide)

• Remove concentration skill. This is presumably already covered by the self-discipline personality trait.

Self-discipline and concentration are similar, but not the same.  I don't know how they're implemented in DF, but self-discipline is the ability to ignore internal distractions and desires, while concentration is the ability to ignore external distractions.  For example, the dwarf is hungry (or lazy) but is self disciplined enough to keep working.  Or the dwarf is working in a noisy environment, but is focused enough (has the concentration) to shut out the noise and keep at it.

• Remove student skill. If the skill is deemed necessary, use other existing skills in the category of the taught skill instead. For instance, a masterful woodcrafter would learn carpentry extremely quickly and an axeman likely would have no trouble grasping how to use a sword effectively. Categories aren't perfect seeing as bowmen would somehow be prodigies in swordsmanship but it's still better than an entirely redundant, unrealistic, pointless skill.

Communication is a two way street--a teacher must present information, but a student has to be prepared to receive it.  Some people are quicker to learn than others.  A student skill is entirely reasonable.  If you want cognate areas, it should be an addition, not a replacement.

• Remove archer skill. There should be no synergy between the different classes of ranged weapons seeing as they are fundamentally different from one another.

Again, I'm not sure if this is how the DF skill works, but an "archer" skill should probably encompass various related tasks like judging distance, picking out targets, timing shots, et cetera.  These are going to be universal across ranged weapons.

Thank you!

[Kilo24]

• Remove concentration skill. This is presumably already covered by the self-discipline personality trait.
• Remove student skill.
• Remove archer skill. There should be no synergy between the different classes of ranged weapons seeing as they are fundamentally different from one another.

I agree with the first two - people can get better at concentration but that can just be handled as a personality change - and disagree with the last one.  There are a number of differences, but also there are a number of similarities between ranged weapons as others have pointed out.

Sorting skills by skill level (a fairly frequent request) would be better than simply not showing dabbling skills, IMO. 

On the whole, I think a lot more skills should be combined.  Because someone gets better at something doesn't mean that it has to be modeled as a new separate skill, and the design of the repeat-the-same-action-7000-times-to-level-up system is horrible for both gameplay and realism, even if it is popular.  Differentiation between current similar skills could easily be handled through a specialization system.

[tsen]

Having a student skill is actually probably simpler than the alternative, which would be a processor-intensive calculation involving all relevant personality traits and skills to form a model of how willing and also how able a particular dwarf is to learn from the specific instructor. It wouldn't HAVE to work that way, but doing it otherwise would be an inelegant kludge.