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[Johuotar]

Hey, didn't hear about the expansion until now. Is it harder? I tried Shogun 2 on the hardest setting my first time, and pretty much wiped the floor with everyone using one of the crappier daimyos. Almost every battle was a heroic victory, and I only ever used ~8 units maximum in a battle. Please tell me that they finally made battle AI that isn't pants-on-head retarded.

lolwut. Note to self: If you ever see Barbarossa TSG in online battle on the opposing side, just GG and quit.

[Jackrabbit]

Yeah, I never had that issue.
That said, I get heroic victories all the time in this game. I remember in Rome they were a really, really big thing and something to be proud of but they just keep showing up. Better than in Empire, where EVERY victory was heroic without exception but do you know the criteria for a heroic victory?

[jester]

Yeah, I never had that issue.
That said, I get heroic victories all the time in this game. I remember in Rome they were a really, really big thing and something to be proud of but they just keep showing up. Better than in Empire, where EVERY victory was heroic without exception but do you know the criteria for a heroic victory?

I belive its % of your guys lost/% of them lost, though I might be wrong.  Ive had plenty of battles where my 5 units would curbstomp the enemies 15 units, for about 20% losses, AVERAGE VICTORY

[Heron TSG]

You have to be outnumbered, and if you do it manually, it has to be a battle you would have lost during an autoresolve. (Though they're still possible rarely through the autoresolve functions.)

I haven't tried online play, I think I'll do that soon.

[umiman]

They patched it not long after the game came out so that heroic victories were much rarer. I barely get any for instance. I believe the qualifiers are, in addition to what others have mentioned:

1. Not lose a large percentage of your own units. It doesn't matter if 100 of your men kill 4000, if you lose 70 men you get a Pyrrhic victory. 
2. The number of enemies you fight doesn't really matter apparently. Just your own losses. In multiplayer when everyone has more or less equal forces, you can *with some luck and skill* get heroic victories if you slaughter them all without losing much. So long as your forces are about even or he outnumbers you.

Most of the old heroic victories are now called decisive victories in game. You still get the little statue and everything on the campaign map.

It's pretty tough for me to get any sort of heroic victory in the FotS campaigns on very hard right now. The AI cheats so hard with its unit numbers it's crazy. Ever tried fighting an army with 16 sets of Armstrong guns? I've never seen my capital blown apart so fast. I don't blame it though, considering the difficulty level.

[umiman]

Pardon the double post, but I had to post this. I won 1v2 as a traditional army vs 2 FotS armies:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Background:
I was reading some stuff when someone said that Shogitai are the No Dachi Samurai of FotS. Now, I always thought No Dachi Samurai were useless shittier versions of regular Katana Samurai. That they are only good at charging and then dying. After all, that's what the campaign even tells us. Good at charge and bad at melee.

So I thought....

"I always use Shogitai to win my battles... so if No Dachi are the same, then No Dachi should easily slaughter guns too right?"

The test:
I went into a ranked match with my Shogun 2 avatar with the No Dachis. It plopped me in a 2v2. Then at the last second my teammate dropped and I was left 1v2 against two FotS guys. It didn't really change my strategy, I charged them all the same. The end result is the above. Each No Dachi killed more than double their number without losing anything. I slaughtered two armies and caused casualties with them totally more than 1.5x my entire force itself.

[Heron TSG]

That's because No-dachi samurai are total nutjobs. I've seen a high-experience squad of them rout a group of katana heroes just by killing half of them on the initial charge. If you can cause a chain rout, you don't need no stinkin' melee! (And then consider that 'pursuing' = 'constant charge bonus', and you have a dang good time.)

[ThtblovesDF]

I tried the player vs player...

Starting as dirty peasent commander, playing 5 games where I got violated by Gatling guns and units that have some sort of buffs that the same spear levis  (1 on 1 on flat ground) have the enemys troops win with 140/150 vs 50/150 [routing] and other bullshit and then barley leveling once made me go "nope" -  singleplayer for this player.

[MorleyDev]

I never got into Empire/Napoleon Total War. Even in Shogun 2, I am useless with guns. I just can't use them and when I do somehow get kills with them, it doesn't feel particularly satisfying. So probably not gonna get the expansion untll it's going really cheap...

In Medieval 2 I've had battles where 60 units have killed 300 units with no loses, and it's only been an average victory. Then I had a battle with similar numbers, but I lost a few units. Heroic Victory. What?

[umiman]

Lumbajak and me went into a couple of ranked siege battles (for some reason every time we selected siege as an option we got it). Won almost all of them... or probably all of them, don't remember. I think we won 5 of them? Something like that.

Here's what I noticed about them:
1. The game sure likes throwing us on the defending side. This means we get significantly less money and the enemy knows where we are. I don't personally like defending a siege myself because of my nature but hey, you work with what you get.

2. Cannons actually don't do much in this mode honestly. They run out of ammo pretty fast and there's just too much stuff to shoot at. It's similar for cannons on the defending side. It's just to weird to use properly.

3. My general's ability to see the enemy's deployment sure is freaking useful in sieges. Being able to see where the attack is coming from, where the cannons are... it's just ludicrous.

4. Man the castles sure are weird. Every single time we were defending we were given a rinky-dink, teeny tiny, square, 1-wall wooden palisade. The only time we ever got to attack we had to attack a 5-level citadel with star fort cannons on the walls. Still won every single time though hahahaha. And for some reason our rinky-dink wooden forts had rapid-fire machinegun arrow towers that could shoot every single direction and slaughter huge amounts of men.

5. Shogitai and bow kachi are the gods of this mode.

[Lumbajak]

IIRC We only lost two games last night.

One where we were both Shogun 2 on Rice Fields in a small unit size battle, and one where it matched us with a third guy who brought a whopping 4 units, meanwhile the an enemy player murdered everything with Revolver Cavalry.


We won every single one of those 7-8 sieges.

[Heron TSG]

Tried multiplayer yesterday, and was immediately thrown into a siege defense with my army of Matchlock Ashigaru and a few Yari Ashigaru. Opposing army attacked with a small force of samurai, but I guessed right on which side they'd be coming from and promptly lined the palisade with guns. The only unit to make it up the wall was the general, and even he routed after a short skirmish with the yari-wielders. (The gunfire pouring into the rest of his still-climbing squad probably had something to do with it.)

Casualties: 3 peasants.
Kills: ~500 samurai.

Heroic victory, awwwww yeeeeeaaah.

[Johuotar]

I've noticed matchlock are pretty good when defending in siege. I dont really use them for other stuff.

[Heron TSG]

In retrospect, I should have gotten more archers to arc-fire over the walls, as only a very limited number of matchlock ashigaru can fire at a time, even with a rotation. But yeah, it's a massacre. The only thing that can easily overcome it is... more ashigaru. It's horrific, and resembles the battle with the boars in Princess Mononoke, but a horde of peasants can overwhelm the walls if they have a general that can keep the ragged survivors together. (Most can't.)

[umiman]

You win sieges by spamming archers and artillery. Even in FotS. Guns mean nothing when they're not in range of their opponent, and all bows have significantly longer range than guns. Furthermore, none of the Shogun 2 castles were actually made to take advantage of gunpowder units in defense since there are ditches and obstacles freaking everywhere for people to hide behind (compare to the forts in Empire where you have clear firing lines in every direction). Whereas bows can shoot anything regardless of obstacles. All Shogun 2 players will roflstomp FotS players in a siege because of this. A handful of bow warrior monks will win it for you regardless of which side you're on.

It's kinda boring actually after awhile.

Still prefer land battles with lots of maneuver and flanking and positioning.



Edit: I've turned into "that guy" when it comes to matchmade battles. The very thing I didn't want to be. Every time I get sent up against someone lower level than me but still at medium funds, I immediately bring out the level 9 Armstrong Guns with perfect accuracy and the ability to hit the entire map from my spawn. I feel so pathetic. More than half my army is still melee though.