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Happiness! [Security]

26 (31%)

Freedom! [Liberty]

58 (69%)

Total Members Voted: 84

[Zironic]

I didn't list every single job that ever existed in my post. You understand the point.

What sort of Engineers are your parents? Even with Ph. Ds, their payscale ranges from as low as $18 000, and some are valued by society more than others (not that they're not all valuable).

18,000? What kind of Engineer gets paid 18,000? That's almost off by an order of magnitude.

[Nikov]

I didn't list every single job that ever existed in my post. You understand the point.

What sort of Engineers are your parents? Even with Ph. Ds, their payscale ranges from as low as $18 000, and some are valued by society more than others (not that they're not all valuable).

18,000? What kind of Engineer gets paid 18,000? That's almost off by an order of magnitude.

"Sanitation and Landscaping Engineer" does not count as an Engineer. Its a Janitor.

I prefer freedom. However, I live in America and I am upper middle class. I constitute a very small minority among the world, thus the concept of me being happy over others is kind of grotesque. However, by no means of my own, their freedom has already been robbed to provide for my freedoms, thus I choose the choice that gives less harsh lessons.

Go cruxify yourself.

[Criptfeind]

Go cruxify yourself.

That seems harsh considering how you don't offer your thoughts upon the matter.

[Duuvian]

I didn't list every single job that ever existed in my post. You understand the point.

What sort of Engineers are your parents? Even with Ph. Ds, their payscale ranges from as low as $18 000, and some are valued by society more than others (not that they're not all valuable).

18,000? What kind of Engineer gets paid 18,000? That's almost off by an order of magnitude.

"Sanitation and Landscaping Engineer" does not count as an Engineer. Its a Janitor.

I prefer freedom. However, I live in America and I am upper middle class. I constitute a very small minority among the world, thus the concept of me being happy over others is kind of grotesque. However, by no means of my own, their freedom has already been robbed to provide for my freedoms, thus I choose the choice that gives less harsh lessons.

Go cruxify yourself.

I agree with Nikov's anger. That is a pretty douchebag way of looking at it. Just imagine, the people you mention could have been better people if they lacked ignorance of things we now know about. You, who live in an age of internet, simply do it, by your own words, because you are either lazy or a coward. That is why I think that Nikov reacted in such a way. You basically said "If I see someone harmed or taken advantage of, I'm going to ignore it if I can because that's what my dad did and his dad way back to Andrew Jackson." in such a way that you not only make yourself sound like a huge waste of space, but also that you don't care about how others live in the slightest as long as it doesn't affect your little "upper middle class" world that you live in.

[Grakelin]

Hi,

Why don't you guys go try talking to some engineers before decided that they must make all kinds of money. Especially if you are making the mistake of studying to be one without necessarily enjoying it. Then get back to me.

Grakelin

EDIT: Also, and every person who nitpicks that their profession of choice wasn't listed in my post are just being smartasses. I didn't make all that up myself, go read a book.

[Zangi]

I prefer freedom. However, I live in America and I am upper middle class. I constitute a very small minority among the world, thus the concept of me being happy over others is kind of grotesque. However, by no means of my own, their freedom has already been robbed to provide for my freedoms, thus I choose the choice that gives less harsh lessons.

Go cruxify yourself.

I agree with Nikov's anger. That is a pretty douchebag way of looking at it. Just imagine, the people you mention could have been better people if they lacked ignorance of things we now know about. You, who live in an age of internet, simply do it, by your own words, because you are either lazy or a coward. That is why I think that Nikov reacted in such a way. You basically said "If I see someone harmed or taken advantage of, I'm going to ignore it if I can because that's what my dad did and his dad way back to Andrew Jackson." in such a way that you not only make yourself sound like a huge waste of space, but also that you don't care about how others live in the slightest as long as it doesn't affect your little "upper middle class" world that you live in.

Its Merican, in a way.  It dun bother me so I ain dun nuthing about it.
Its also American to stick your noses right in there business.
Who da thunk it? 

Honestly though, you will see the 'ignoring shit happening cause it ain't my business' all the time, anywhere.  Just about everyone has done it one time or another.  Whether they know they did or not.  For whatever reason.
Also happens that uninvited 'help' gets rebuked, an effective deterrent to future nose sticking...

That is why you have heroes and equivalents in media entertainment.  They get up in your business to help you, despite possible repercussions, while the average Joe and Ann will ignore you or just stop to gawk at your misfortune.

Disclaimer: Of course, there are always exceptions, humanity is a varied bunch and feelings/moods/motives are sometimes significant enough to make an effect on that variation.

Unity is strength, strength bring freedom, then unity bring freedom.
Of course juxtaposing two aphorism proves nothing, but the idea is there.
By paying taxes and accepting enforcement of a resonable amount of law, you makes yourself free from the burden of insecurity, ignorance and disasers. Mostly.

Eh, mitigation of it all, there is no absolute in these cases.
And Unity, rarely ever happens except when facing a common 'enemy'...

[Grakelin]

Actually, the Unity had engine trouble and split up into seven distinct factions over Planet.

[Zangi]

Actually, the Unity had engine trouble and split up into seven distinct factions over Planet.

That is because we don't have aliens to fight.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Actually, the Unity had engine trouble and split up into seven distinct factions over Planet.

That is because we don't have aliens to fight.

I refuse to accept no one got my previous allusion, and are now speaking of this independently two pages later.

[Grakelin]

Quote?

I would rather live free and die miserable than live enslaved and die happy.

Why? Because that would make you happy?

To be free is to be defient to all who dream themselves your master*. To be defient can bring a sort of rightious joy.

_{If you know where I got the wording of this from, you win one nothing.}

Was it this? There are so many better choices (I remember thinking "he spelled defiant wrong").

"Gentlemen, forget what your courtesans have told you: Size does matter!"

[Cheeetar]

The idea of having total freedom but no happiness makes me think of being the AI in I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream.

[Zironic]

Don't take what I say to be nationalistic. I am just stating that I see people all around me who gorge themselves upon the fruits of the hard abusive work pushed upon others. I recognize that I have seen no real hard days, and all my problems are only concepts among those with real problems. I've never seen poverty, famine, disease, or war. They are in a sense isolated concepts that only those who experience them really understand them. I'd choose freedom over happiness because I live where freedom is given to me. To choose happiness would be to take.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Quote?

To be free is to be defient to all who dream themselves your master*. To be defient can bring a sort of rightious joy.

_{If you know where I got the wording of this from, you win one nothing.}

Was it this? There are so many better choices (I remember thinking "he spelled defiant wrong").

"Gentlemen, forget what your courtesans have told you: Size does matter!"

There are indeed better quotes, but that one seemed most connected to the discussion.

For the ignorant: "As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century, free flow of information is the only safeguard against tyranny. The once-chained people whose leaders at last lose their grip on information flow will soon burst with freedom and vitality, but the free nation gradually constricting its grip on public discourse has begun its rapid slide into despotism. Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master." -Commissioner Pravin Lal, "U.N. Declaration of Rights"

Although, I personaly think the best of that games quotes are the ones that betray how Miriam really operates.

"Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind." -Sister Miriam Godwinson, "We must Dissent"

"Some would ask, how could a perfect God create a universe filled with so much that is evil. They have missed a greater conundrum: why would a perfect God create a universe at all"? -Sister Miriam Godwinson, "But for the Grace of God"

Yeah, right, you are really a Christian fanatic and so not using your PhD in social psychology to manipulate a faction worth of people.

[Grakelin]

I didn't get that out of either of those quotes. I always figured Miriam actually was a godfearing Christian.

Don't take what I say to be nationalistic. I am just stating that I see people all around me who gorge themselves upon the fruits of the hard abusive work pushed upon others. I recognize that I have seen no real hard days, and all my problems are only concepts among those with real problems. I've never seen poverty, famine, disease, or war. They are in a sense isolated concepts that only those who experience them really understand them. I'd choose freedom over happiness because I live where freedom is given to me. To choose happiness would be to take.

What are you talking about I don't even

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I didn't get that out of either of those quotes. I always figured Miriam actually was a godfearing Christian.

Nothing says that she couldn't be a godfearing Christian using her PhD in social psychology to manipulate a faction worth of people.

Still, her AI tactics are aware enough to extort you for tech that her faction couldn't develop in half a playthrough. Seems fishy that a genuine Christian fanatic would extort you for tech that her people obviously consider to be unholy.