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Happiness! [Security]

26 (31%)

Freedom! [Liberty]

58 (69%)

Total Members Voted: 84

[Funk]

freedon no man can truey be happey in chains.

[Retro]

freedon no man can truey be happey in chains.

The thing is that you would be happy. This isn't a realistic 'perceived happiness, no freedom vs. real happiness, real freedom' situation, it's 'pure happiness, no freedom vs freedom but at the cost of misery.' Your life in the real world would suck. The decision to leave the dream would actually sap almost all happiness from you in exchange for truth of the world around you and real freedom. You cannot have happiness and freedom in this situation - the price of having one is foregoing the other. Not trying to say "you're wrong because you're supposed to say this," I'm just trying to clarify.

Personally I would choose to stay in the dream world. As I said towards the beginning of the thread, if it's a personalized form of pure happiness vs. a personalize form of pure freedom, I would always choose happiness. I can stand knowing I'm living in a tube if it means I'm having the best life experience that I could come up with in my wildest dreams (or rather, that I couldn't come up with but my subconscious and imagination could).

[Luke_Prowler]

It is human nature to reach for that is said to be impossible to grab, to see and learn things unknown. We are an exploring race, and we can never be content with one thing for so long. We strive for adventure, to do that which has never been done before. we push forwards, to dream things that have not yet been dreamed. To find that out world in an illusion, even if reality is a cruel and bitter world, I could not live that lie. I will strive for tomorrow, to find true happiness in my own path, not for it to be handed to me. onward and upwards, until I have reached the heavens.

[Criptfeind]

hypothetical scenario:

But no you see if you were not happy in the dream world than you would not be happy and therefor has no barring on the question of this thread at all.

All you people are ignoring the question and saying you need freedom to be happy (unless you are not, but most people here seem to be saying that) but that is not the point, if you want freedom to be happy than the answer is you value happiness.

No mater how deep you go into why you want freedom it is always going to be because you want or need it to be happy and therefor you value happiness above freedom.

________________________________________________________________________________________

On the other hand now that the vote says security (which does not equal happiness) and liberty (which may or may not equal freedom) it becomes a personal choice.

[Nikov]

It saddens me to see how many slaves and children frequent this board.

[Criptfeind]

So are you saying that I was wrong?

I would rather live free and die miserable than live enslaved and die happy.

Why? Because that would make you happy?

[Josephus]

It saddens me to see how many slaves and children frequent this board.

I happen to like having others think for myself, thank you very much.

WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I would rather live free and die miserable than live enslaved and die happy.

Why? Because that would make you happy?

To be free is to be defient to all who dream themselves your master*. To be defient can bring a sort of rightious joy.

_{If you know where I got the wording of this from, you win one nothing.}

[Criptfeind]

So I went though the thread and looked at all the posted votes and explanations (Ignoring the long winded ones that were hard to see what they were saying and spiting a vote where the guy argued both ways.) and there was really only six different answers

#1 Freedom for happy: 11.5
#2 Happy: 10.5
#3 Freedom as defined as freedom to still be alive: 3
#4 Armok: 1 (technically can be called #1 but funner to call him out for it)
#5 Freedom with no explanation: 0 (used to be 1 changed later to #1)
#6 Freedom for truth 2 (Most likely a subset of #1)

I think the only gray area here is #3 which I think works as a sub set of #1.

I would rather live free and die miserable than live enslaved and die happy.

Why? Because that would make you happy?

To be free is to be defient to all who dream themselves your master*. To be defient can bring a sort of rightious joy.

_{If you know where I got the wording of this from, you win one nothing.}

So I can put you in #1 right?

[Belathus]

In your scenario, I'd have to choose the real world over the dream world.  After living the dream, gaining my Saturn-based Mansion, being a hero several times over, and the like, my dream world, and being a hero, is probably old-hat.  I imagine the prospect of giving that up to explore and learn this whole new world, one that no doubt more needs my help, I would find fascinating.  Even ignoring all that, I would probably still choose the real world over the dream, if only because I'd know that this isn't just some made-up world I was being put through.  The awareness of knowing there is an unknown real world outside my fake one would torment me.

I fully admit that I'm a total nerd and absolutely love to learn new things, though.

It saddens me to see how many slaves and children frequent this board.

I happen to like having others think for myself, thank you very much.

WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

I rather hope this is a joke.  Heh.

[Little]

It saddens me to see how many slaves and children frequent this board.

I happen to like having others think for myself, thank you very much.

WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

I rather hope this is a joke.  Heh.

One does not joke about loyalty to the Party and Big Brother. 

[Sean Mirrsen]

In the proposed scenario, I'd choose the dream, if that's the binary choice.

If you consider circumstances, there may be a wee little roundabout, as you freak out and attempt to break free of the sudden "captivity", since you're perfectly free in your dream world. If you are then helped and removed from the system, you will get to see the reality. The real choice might come then - stay in a world you know nothing of, and have nobody to relate to in, or return to a familiar and pleasant, but ultimately virtual life behind the screen. I'm not sure my lust for knowledge is so great to abandon a good world in favor of a bad world. From the philosophical side, you'd never really know which is the dream - from your point of view, you'd think your experience in the real world is a dream, while your world is real. Therefore, all things considered, I'd still choose the "happy" side.

[Deathworks]

Hi!

Have I just missed that or has the poll always suggested that happiness = security? Personally, I don't see that equation; instead, if anything it is on the same level as happiness = freedom, that is happiness requires a certain level of freedom and security in order to be in existence.

Criptfeind: An interesting summary you have written.

I suppose #1 means the camp I belong to "I want to be happy, but being happy actually also necessitates freedom" (which I just noticed is exactly what you described in the post before your summary (^_^;; ).

Deathworks

[Criptfeind]

Have I just missed that or has the poll always suggested that happiness = security? Personally, I don't see that equation; instead, if anything it is on the same level as happiness = freedom, that is happiness requires a certain level of freedom and security in order to be in existence.

Yup it changed. No longer is it (what I believe to be) black and white.

[Grakelin]

Has anybody here discussed the fact that we all give up a little bit of liberty for a little bit of security in our day to day lives, anyway? By living in a democratically-run nation, we sign a social contract with said government to give up some of our power so that they will have the power to help us out (whether or not they do so is irrelevant, that's just what they've agreed to do). We don't have to physically sign it, no, but before anybody goes "I DONT HAVE TO DO ANYTHING I DIDNT SIGN NOTHIN IM TWELVE AND WHATS GOIN ON", you actually do have to follow laws from the government, or you will be imprisoned.

True freedom would be the freedom to live without a government and give up many of the great things we have today.