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Author Topic: Top3 suggestions ROUND 2  (Read 3794 times)

zagibu

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Top3 suggestions ROUND 2
« on: April 10, 2008, 03:53:00 pm »

Vote closed. Please place your votes in the new thread:
-> http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=003407

Round 1: http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=003042

Winners of round 1 (votes for these won't be counted anymore):

  • mass building of constructions (walls, floors, etc.)
    Reduce construction placement tedium. A possible solution could be similar to how bridges are built. Or like the designation interface.
  • (d)esignate (D)ump
    Designate an area in which all things are marked for dumping.
  • job priorities
    Jobs with higher priorities will be done first (if possible).

Round 2:

  • (22) combine stacks / better stack handling:
    Narmio, Khosan, PTTG??, Dorten, Lyrax, Othob Rithol, Sowelu, Retales, Helmaroc, Okenido, penguinofhonor, Lokysan, kamikazemoose, Jack A T, ShadeJS, MaxVance, ShunterAlhena, Slappy Moose, Thassa, Drunken, Tylui, Align
  • (13) stop dwarven entrance dance when ordered inside:
    Narmio, Khosan, Rawl, Dorten, Othob Rithol, Richards, Retales, Untelligent, ShadeJS, Slappy Moose, Wooty, Lightman, Sevrun
  • (12) forbidden area designation:
    zagibu, GreyMario, Rawl, kaypy, Kogan Loloklam, TheDistur, kamikazemoose, Jack A T, Inquisitor Saturn, Wokeye, Red Jackard, Align
  • (8) complete overhaul of job system (see Keldor's post below):
    Keldor, Symmetry, Lokysan, MaxVance, Thassa, Jamuk, riak2002, Tylui
  • (8) improved siege AI (tunnels, siege ladders, etc.):
    Richards, Idiom, Fedor, ShunterAlhena, A_Fey_Dwarf, Ralje, Fualkner, Quift
  • (8) more realistic/harder agriculture:
    Belteshazzar, thvaz, Dorten, Othob Rithol, TheDistur, Applegren, Drunken, Quift
  • (8) transport vehicles / better hauling:
    Draco18s, GreyMario, Richards, Idiom, Symmetry, Puzzlemaker, Lokysan, Thassa
  • (7) filter to hide dead things in unit list (and other filters):
    Narmio, Khosan, PTTG??, Rawl, Idiom, kamikazemoose, Jack A T
  • (7) resizeable viewport:
    Keldor, Fedor, Jamuk, Red Jackard, Fualkner, Tylui, Emerald Hawk
  • (6) panic room / civ. zone in times of conflict:
    Sowelu, Applegren, Mephansteras, gurra_geban, Wooty, Gambler
  • (5) fully customizable/scriptable interface:
    dyze, The-Moon, Andir, Eagleon, ryak2002
  • (4) allow engravings on constructed walls:
    GreyMario, Kogan Loloklam, Okenido, THLawrence
  • (4) door access lists:
    zagibu, Untelligent, Aldwin, gurra_geban
  • (4) material selection for materials used in workshops:
    The-Moon, Okenido, pickupsticks, MaxVance
  • (4) sewage:
    thvaz, Symmetry, Andir, ShadeJS
  • (4) underground diversity:
    Applegren, Fedor, Kagus, Red Jackard
  • (3) growable/plantable/spreadable trees:
    TheDistur, Slappy Moose, Kagus
  • (3) show lever connections / name levers:
    PTTG??, A_Fey_Dwarf, Ralje
  • (3) time control slider:
    dyze, [NO_THOUGHT], Jamuk
  • (3) uses for fire (waste combustion, cremation, etc.):
    Retales, Eagleon, Wooty
  • (2) change "store items in bin" job(s) to "fill bin with items" job:
    gurra_geban, Quift
  • (2) immigration control:
    dyze, Kogan Loloklam
  • (2) init option to disable item scatter on abandon:
    THLawrence, A_Fey_Dwarf
  • (2) more liquids:
    BlutundEisen, Helmaroc
  • (2) more trap/mechanical/construction components (springs, worm tracks, etc.):
    Eagleon, Kagus
  • (2) organized religion:
    penguinofhonor, ShunterAlhena
  • (2) sort skills by ability:
    pickupsticks, penguinofhonor
  • (2) stockpile priorities:
    zagibu, Aldwin
  • (2) wrestling improvement "throws" (like hammer "push"):
    Xombie, Ralje
  • (1) ability to differentiate between pitted and non-pitted animals:
    Aldwin
  • (1) adventure mode: improved dwarven halls:
    Lightman
  • (1) adventure mode: skills from fortress mode for adventurer:
    Lightman
  • (1) allow custom naming of professions that don't end in "man":
    Untelligent
  • (1) attack commands on specific bodyparts:
    pickupsticks
  • (1) better handling of military dwarves:
    Gambler
  • (1) constructable display cases:
    THLawrence
  • (1) dwarven self preservation (actively seek shelter):
    Keldor
  • (1) dynamically allocated fort space:
    Belteshazzar
  • (1) elevators:
    BlutundEisen
  • (1) filter for construction material selections:
    Lyrax
  • (1) fix the tantrum-downward-spiral / directed tantrums:
    Draco18s
  • (1) init option for 2 separate graphic files (text/graphics):
    The-Moon
  • (1) more annoying stone management:
    Drunken
  • (1) more creatures:
    Helmaroc
  • (1) more impressive and varied enemies:
    Belteshazzar
  • (1) more raw files:
    Fualkner
  • (1) more tiles in the vertical screen direction:
    Melloth
  • (1) more ways to deal with undead fish:
    Sevrun
  • (1) more z-axis fun:
    BlutundEisen
  • (1) multi-threaded program code:
    Andir
  • (1) option to turn off zoom+pause upon striking new rock:
    Emerald Hawk
  • (1) practice weapons:
    Lyrax
  • (1) priority given to nearby jobs:
    kaypy
  • (1) reduce owned item clutter:
    kaypy
  • (1) room designation over z-levels:
    Sowelu
  • (1) seasonal fortress report (voice of the people):
    Wokeye
  • (1) separate year counting for ages:
    ThePaladin
  • (1) separate social skills and stats:
    Draco18s
  • (1) skill synergies
    Align
  • (1) soldiers can pull levers:
    Mephansteras
  • (1) stay inside order references INSIDE tiles not UNDERGROUND:
    Mephansteras
  • (1) stop "noble x has altered prices..." spam:
    Bouchart
  • (1) tools needed for work in workshops (axe, chisel and hammer, etc.):
    thvaz
  • (1) two step grabbing process during wrestling (no huge x*y list):
    Xombie
  • (1) wrestling improvement "take-down" (slam into ground in place):
    Xombie
  • (0) attack neutral creatures (like traders):
  • (0) allow caged creatures to be moved without chance of escape:
  • (0) beard tantrums (caused by blackpowder explosives):
  • (0) better economy:
  • (0) blackpowder explosives:
  • (0) cages not unbuilt when opened via lever:
  • (0) color code jobs in dwarf job list by experience:
  • (0) constructable totems:
  • (0) deformable terrain (by using blackpowder explosives):
  • (0) disasters like in Simcity:
  • (0) dwarven AI improvements:
  • (0) excavate - mine without stone production:
  • (0) forbid/allow classes of items to be built in specific workshops:
  • (0) forbid/claim/dump all items in a list:
  • (0) framerate improvements:
  • (0) give dwarves the ability to carry multiple items:
  • (0) improved army management:
  • (0) improved zones:
  • (0) ladders:
  • (0) less impulsive dwarves / more work ethos:
  • (0) melding of adv. with fort. mode:
  • (0) more armed recruitable people in adv. mode:
  • (0) more auto generated jobs:
  • (0) more playable civs:
  • (0) more stockpile filter options:
  • (0) more useful rain:
  • (0) more uses for fat (machine grease, etc.):
  • (0) more war creatures:
  • (0) player actions affect region alignment:
  • (0) rationing of resources:
  • (0) slavery and prostitution:
  • (0) sources of running freshwater on salty maps:
  • (0) standing production orders:
  • (0) store logs in bins:
  • (0) tradable sand:
  • (0) trap system rework (implement states: detected, avoided, disabled):
  • (0) world tile graphics support:
  • (0) zoom on events:

My suggestions:

  • door access lists:
    For each door have a list where you can mark dwarves and options "access for marked", "no access for marked", "no access for all" and "access for all".
  • forbidden area designation:
    Like a traffic designation, but dwarves will NEVER walk on such a tile. Optionally make dwarves with no high meaning of authorities disrespect this designation sometimes, but have fortress guard punish it.
  • stockpile priorities:
    Introduce a priority number that can be adjusted for stockpiles. This number will be taken into account, when a dwarves decides where to put a thing. Lower number stockpiles will only be used when higher number ones are full or full to a set percentage.

[ May 15, 2008: Message edited by: zagibu ]

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Align

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Re: Top3 suggestions ROUND 2
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2008, 05:54:00 pm »

Mark me down for
-More automated jobs
-Growable trees
-Sort skills by ability
, please!
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Belteshazzar

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Re: Top3 suggestions ROUND 2
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2008, 07:15:00 pm »

Harder Farming (maybe what I mean in more realistic farming to where it takes more that five dwarves to feed the rest.)

Dynamically Allocated Fort Space (I hate the boundary lines yet understand that many people play these games with the expectation that no graphics means it wont eat your computer alive but others of us want to manage massive city states growing so large they bore through mountains or touch the skys.)

More Impressive and Varied Enemies (Not Frightening! most of these guys can be stopped by a trench. If that doesn't stop them then there is always my cage traps and doors. I understand that many of tools they need would require magic ,but lets not forget that goblins have two hands and a brain as well. No reason they can't outbuild or outdig us ehh?)

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thvaz

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Re: Top3 suggestions ROUND 2
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2008, 07:33:00 pm »

-tools needed for work in workshops (axe, chisel and hammer, etc.)
 -mason tools(or the dwarves break the stones with their bare hands?), carpenter's tools(saw), metalsmith's tools...DF is a complex game, and item making currently is too simple. Your starting dwarves should start with their job's tools, and migrants could bring theirs, but every other one would need to be contructed or bought in the caravans. The top quality of a item should depend on the quality of the tool.

-sewage
    - Like before, a game complex like DF couldn't be complete without this

more realistic agriculture
    - agriculture was one of the great things about pre z-level release. And now it's pratically lost. It should be fun(and difficult) as before.

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Drunken

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Re: Top3 suggestions ROUND 2
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2008, 08:02:00 pm »

Im going to vote for:
more annoying stone management again.
A scriptable interface so that people could mod it would make be great, and possible save valuable dev time (or not I don't know how easy it is).
And one that's not on the list:
More useful rain: filling ponds, flooding things and being collectable (in barrels or buckets or a rain collection workshop)
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dyze

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Re: Top3 suggestions ROUND 2
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2008, 08:24:00 pm »

im just curious why you closed the first one so fast? ..i mean if we really want to include as big a part of the community as possible, why not just keep it running (forever)?

anyways, im still down for the same things as last week..

better interface
time control
immigration control

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Draco18s

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Re: Top3 suggestions ROUND 2
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2008, 08:45:00 pm »

Same as last time,
1) Separate social skills & stats
2) Mine carts/Wheelbarrows/Hauler skill/Better hauling
3) fix the tantrum-downward-spiral
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Narmio

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Re: Top3 suggestions ROUND 2
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2008, 08:46:00 pm »

1)  Stop the "entrance dance".  Thanks to whoever coined that term, it's a good one.  More formally, make "no going outside" check whether the destination is outside when taking the job, rather than aborting only when the dwarf reaches sweet fresh air and gets shot to pieces by an Elite Machinegungoblin squad.

As a complete aside, I came up with a method around this, I have a diagonal pattern of single tile raising bridges that I refer to as my "fly-up security screens", just like those you get in banks. When they're raised, there's no line of sight from outside in the valley to my silly dancing peasants.  They did once squish a kitten that was in the wrong place when I pulled the lever, though.  But I digress...

2)  Unit list filtering.  I'd personally love to see filtering on a string you can enter that would be matched against unit name, unit profession, unit status, etc.  Basically limit the list to those containing the search string in any of the columns.

3)  Combine stacks of identical items when placed in containers. I mostly want this for the sake of my marksdwarves and their silly quiver-filling antics.

[ April 10, 2008: Message edited by: Narmio ]

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Khosan

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Re: Top3 suggestions ROUND 2
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2008, 09:38:00 pm »

Get rid of the Dwarven Entrance Dance (excellent term, by the by)

Filtering the unit list.

Stacking.  I hate accidentally un-forbidding single metal bolts and having them dragged back to my ammo stockpile.

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[NO_THOUGHT]

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Re: Top3 suggestions ROUND 2
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2008, 10:06:00 pm »

I vote for time control (near bottom) I can't stand waiting for so long.................................................*dies*
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GreyMario

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Re: Top3 suggestions ROUND 2
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2008, 10:25:00 pm »

You can choose up to three things to vote for.

Anyway...

1) allow engravings on constructed walls
2) forbidden area designation
3) transport vehicles + better hauling

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PTTG??

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Re: Top3 suggestions ROUND 2
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2008, 10:54:00 pm »

-Restacking Stacks : An essential element erkingly errored.
-Lever Existing Connections: Display daynamic data, do!
-Unit List Sorting: I'm not doing annother alliteration.
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Rawl

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Re: Top3 suggestions ROUND 2
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2008, 11:45:00 pm »

1) Forbidden area
2) Entrance dance
3) Unit list filtering
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Keldor

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Re: Top3 suggestions ROUND 2
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2008, 11:50:00 pm »

1.)Complete overhaul of job/task system

This includes integrating job priorities, job distance, allowing jobs to be taken by multiple dwarves, multi-hauling, multitasking, allowing sufficiently important jobs to override sleep/eating/drinking, and how long the job has gone undone. No more miners picking the furthest possible designated square to dig, or peasants hauling an item, picking another at random on the far side of the fort, then another one at random, again at the opposite side of the fort. Also, replace danger suspensions with delays. Delays are good because they wear off without player intervention. Also, newly added jobs (like Pull Lever) would attempt to be added into the job queues of every dwarf, according to the job priority index. This would also make most of the burrows arc unnecessary.

Dwarves would pick jobs by a simple equation, such as Priority_Index = dwarf_priority_for_this_job_type * base_priority_of_this_job * global_priority_level_for_this_job_type * ( time_importance * ( base_time_level + time_undone ) ) / ( ( distance + job_duration ) * number_of_dwarves_attempting_this_job )
This would be expanded to a queue by having the index calculated according to the dwarves future location after the completion of the previous job. A job is inserted into the queue as soon as it has higher priority than the next job in the list does. At this point, the rest of the queue is discarded and the dwarf seeks jobs to fill it as above. The job duration also includes the traveling time spent hauling job items. If a new job attempts to get added to the queue that has priority potentially exceeding the active job, the active job's priority needs to be recalculated according to new distance and job_duration values determined by the jobs current completion level. Also, if a job is completed by another dwarf, it needs to be dropped from the queue. Sleeping, eating, ect. can now be counted as ordinary jobs, though with high base priority. Things like hauling stone could have a low base_priority. In general, the base_priority represents a typical importance level for the job under normal circumstances, with global_priority_level_for_this_job_type and dwarf_priority_for_this_job_type set by the player.

Obviously, it's not practical to calculate the exact distance for jobs, so approximations need to be used.

Delays work simply by removing the given job until they delay counter reaches 0. The counter could be set to different values depending on the severity of the delay cause. Jobs would be considered for delay the moment they become a dwarf's active job, with the location of the starting point of the job proper, and of each item needed for the job considered to be the dwarf's position as far as danger checks are concerned. Thus dwarves wouldn't need to run outside before realizing that the item they want to haul is surrounded by goblins, or to realize that it's forbidden for them to go outside in the first place.

2.) Dwarven self preservation

No more dwarves running in random directions if they see a threat! Especially not random directions that happen to be straight toward the threat... Instead, they need to set a path toward the nearest refuge.

3.) Resizable viewport.

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GreyMario

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Re: Top3 suggestions ROUND 2
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2008, 12:30:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Keldor:
<STRONG>3.) Resizable viewport.</STRONG>

Hit TAB.

I mean, who uses that minimap anyway?

<_<

[ April 11, 2008: Message edited by: GreyMario ]

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