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Your feelings on this?

Strike the earth!
Good idea, don't count me in, though.
Meh, I just like to vote. Don't care.
You'll probably have a lot of "Fun*", that's for sure.
GET A JOB, YOU HIPPIES.

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Author Topic: Geek Commune  (Read 22408 times)

Realmfighter

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Re: Geek Commune
« Reply #135 on: May 27, 2010, 07:35:43 pm »

I would join your commune, good sir, but i have the obvious problems of being a child and being Canadian.

I have been raised with a passive aggressive hatred of all Americans.
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sonerohi

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Re: Geek Commune
« Reply #136 on: May 27, 2010, 07:36:50 pm »

Part the first: Being decent humans, of respectable intellect and questionable morals, it is imperative to the success of the commune that all abide by this rule: No pure French bloods.
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LeoLeonardoIII

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Re: Geek Commune
« Reply #137 on: May 27, 2010, 07:39:39 pm »

Was a data analyst for a hospitalist company. Basically, physician staffing company.

But I can do a bunch of stuff, roofing, concrete, drywall. Doing a vegetable garden right now, the lettuces are delicious. Radishes are up. Edamame, snap peas, peppers, tomatoes, potatoes, etc. are going I guess. Berries probably starting next year, they take a while to get going. And a bunch of crafty stuff like the aforementioned soap, making wargaming terrain and painting miniatures, fruit cordial (slightly syrupy dessert wine), dabbling carpentry.

I could easily be trained into a computer help desk thing. I could try to fall back on teaching karate, but in a recession people don't want to pay for stuff like that. I have a BA, so I could teach at a community college. I could draw on the last 2 and a half years to work in a regular office job or something. God, I worked in a factory for a year, I could do that if I had to. Below that would be food service (cooking or serving), below that lawn / handyman sort of stuff, below that janitorial, and leagues below that I could do call center or sales. You do what you have to, I guess.
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Heron TSG

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Re: Geek Commune
« Reply #138 on: May 27, 2010, 07:46:40 pm »

The main problem with me joining is that I still have two years before I go to college anywhere. If one starts and is running at that point though, I'd consider it most heartily.
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LeoLeonardoIII

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Re: Geek Commune
« Reply #139 on: May 27, 2010, 07:53:16 pm »

Well obviously you need a democratic method of voting people out and in. You need to determine when someone leaves, what of the communal goods / monies do they receive (if any). For a prospective member, what do they need to bring in terms of goods and/or money?

If they don't qualify for this minimum, can they still get in by unanimous membership vote?

What is the minimum number of members before the charter is automaticaly dissolved and all goods and monies divided equally?

What do you do if someone is absent, or otherwise unable to vote?

How often can votes be called? If someone calls for votes too often can their ability to call for votes be silenced for a period?

What is a standard procedure for a free rider? For a thief or wastrel of communal goods? For a thief of personal goods? For someone who withholds the commune's percentage (predictive embezzlement). Is it possible for the commune to demand a search of someone's private space for a stolen article? Does the commune demand bank statements and receipts for tax purposes and proof of sales?

Is there a minimum monthly input to the communal vault? What do you do if someone, despite their best honest efforts, is unable to meet that minimum? Is there a maximum? Is it okay to give more? Is it okay to give less this month if you replace it the next (delayed payment of debt to the commune)?

What if someone wants to get a personal loan of money or materials from the commune, which will be paid back via personal funds? What if someone from outside the commune wants a loan of money or materials?

What do you do in cases of personality conflict? If cliques begin to form?

How do you decide who gets to use contested materials, or space, or tools?

What if one member is angrily vegan, and another likes meat? Must everyone accept that there will be personal meat eaten in the commune? Is the shared menu vegan? Vegetarian?

Is alcohol forbidden? What about drunkenness? Drugs? Which ones?

How to handle parties? Noise complaints in general?

What are the norms for having guests over? What about lovers? What if a commune members starts to have a lover over so much that it seems like they live there? What if a commune member gets married to a non-commune member? Is there a standard practice for handling domestic disputes? Love triangles? How do you determine the difference between abuse and Special Friday Night?

What if one person wants a webcam and it points out their door or window, and spots a commune member who does not want to be filmed?
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Heron TSG

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Re: Geek Commune
« Reply #140 on: May 27, 2010, 08:36:01 pm »

Here's my answer to these. Due to the commune not having a stated leader, (I think...?) I suppose my answers are as good as anybody's. This would be a very democratic commune, by my guess.

Quote
what do they need to bring in terms of goods and/or money?
A recommended entry supply would include enough food and money to live off of until they get a job that could help the commune.

Quote
If they don't qualify for this minimum, can they still get in by unanimous membership vote?
Yes.

Quote
What is the minimum number of members before the charter is automatically dissolved and all goods and monies divided equally?
Three.

Quote
What do you do if someone is absent, or otherwise unable to vote?
It'd be just like they abstained.

Quote
How often can votes be called? If someone calls for votes too often can their ability to call for votes be silenced for a period?
Unlimited. Only if they call meetings for insignificant things.

Quote
What is a standard procedure for a free rider? For a thief or wastrel of communal goods? For a thief of personal goods? For someone who withholds the commune's percentage (predictive embezzlement). Is it possible for the commune to demand a search of someone's private space for a stolen article?
Behead them! I suppose we'd have to trust each other. If it's something major (such as a stolen computer) then an inquiry could be made.

Quote
Does the commune demand bank statements and receipts for tax purposes and proof of sales?
For major things, maybe, but I see no reason to have everyone inspect everyone else's receipts. Maybe if it involved a money transfer of over $100 or so.

Quote
Is there a minimum monthly input to the communal vault? What do you do if someone, despite their best honest efforts, is unable to meet that minimum? Is there a maximum? Is it okay to give more? Is it okay to give less this month if you replace it the next (delayed payment of debt to the commune)?
Everyone should pay an equal amount of the month's expenses. If they can't make the minimum, they could do some additional chores until the point where they could make the minimum again. Giving more would be allowed, as I see no reason to force people to keep their money.

Quote
What if someone wants to get a personal loan of money or materials from the commune, which will be paid back via personal funds? What if someone from outside the commune wants a loan of money or materials?
Popular vote. I can't think of any other way to manage it.

Quote
What do you do in cases of personality conflict? If cliques begin to form?
Considering that we're all bay12goers, and a bit antisocial, we'd all be more of one big clique. It all depends on what the conflicts cause.

Quote
How do you decide who gets to use contested materials, or space, or tools?
Either popular vote or by which decision would benefit the commune more.

Quote
What if one member is angrily vegan, and another likes meat? Must everyone accept that there will be personal meat eaten in the commune? Is the shared menu vegan? Vegetarian?
Eat what you like, and don't complain about it unless the meat eaters are trying to force feed you goat liver.

Quote
Is alcohol forbidden? What about drunkenness? Drugs? Which ones?
Alcohol wouldn't be forbidden so long as it was kept under control. People who get super angry when drunk shouldn't get drunk. Illegal drugs are bad. Keep your prescription drugs to yourself, too.  :P

Quote
How to handle parties? Noise complaints in general?
That depends on the area. Rural parties would likely have few complaints from neighbors, whereas urban parties could get quite a few. I'd say that we could just turn the music down if the townsfolk surround the house with pitchforks.

Quote
What are the norms for having guests over? What about lovers? What if a commune members starts to have a lover over so much that it seems like they live there? What if a commune member gets married to a non-commune member? Is there a standard practice for handling domestic disputes? Love triangles? How do you determine the difference between abuse and Special Friday Night?


Quote
What if one person wants a webcam and it points out their door or window, and spots a commune member who does not want to be filmed?
Ask permission before uploading. If it's a live feed, put up hallway warning signs.

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Est Sularus Oth Mithas
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Re: Geek Commune
« Reply #141 on: May 27, 2010, 09:00:48 pm »

While I personally don't have a problem with anyone else using drugs, if that use could either impair one's ability to help the commune (to drunk to work) or else has negative side effects for others (secondhand smoke, federal agents busting down the doors) then it needs to be restricted.

The largest this commune could be is 32 people. Democracy, if not outright consensus, will be the primary decision making process.

There is a monthly "rent" that will be as low as possible and will cover both upkeep and restocking of supplies. As such it might be higher than rent in some places, but it will include food, utilities, and sudries in bulk form, decreasing everyone's overall costs.

If you wish to leave, you may sell your membership back to the commune for a price accepted by consensus, close to 1/32 of the estimated value of current stock. Someone who wishes to join, and is accepted by consensus, must buy this space for the same price.

For this reason, we must keep at least 1/16th of the value of the stock in cash should someone choose to leave- but in an emergency, they may choose to take some of that in the form of goods. All of this is very flexible and mutable.
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Heron TSG

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Re: Geek Commune
« Reply #142 on: May 27, 2010, 10:52:27 pm »

I myself think that the optimum number of members would be between five and fourteen. A smaller population is more likely to work together, and voting takes less time.
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Rysith

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Re: Geek Commune
« Reply #143 on: May 28, 2010, 12:01:44 am »

I'll go ahead and throw myself in the same bucket as Aqizzar and play along at least a bit, though I likely wouldn't join unless it happened to be near where I live now.

Some kind of organization is required. There will be disagreements, misunderstandings, new people, whatever, and having things spelled out in some way to handle all of those is crucial to the survival of the commune. A "We'll all be hippies" attitude sounds great, but it tends to fall apart after a while.

I'm not sure where this seeming obsession over cutting costs as low as possible is, either. Geeks of most stripes tends to be fairly employable, and if you've got 32 incomes making an average salary for a computer-oriented fresh college graduate (doing some generalizing and back-of-the-envelope work) you're looking at a combined after-tax income of over a million dollars per year. Areas with higher costs of living will pay their geeks more, and if one of your geeks is a finance/accounting geek you'll be paying less in taxes. Figures like $200,000 for the living space just aren't that much.

Basing some rough numbers off my living expenses in college, you're looking at ~$40/week/person for food (which includes curry), ~$15/week/person for utilities, and maybe $10/person/week for maintenance expenses. This is, of course, assuming some modest economies of scale, particularly around the food. That comes out to just over a hundred thousand dollars a year for the 32 people, which means that fully half of the commune could be unemployed (and thus, cooking/cleaning/etc. for the commune) and you'd still be coming out ahead in your first year.

I like the idea of "stock" in the commune, since it makes joining and leaving the commune easy. I'd think that the way to handle rent would be to actually charge a bit more than was required to run the commune, and use the surplus to build up investments to help support the commune (either in difficult times or through interest etc.). Eventually, you might even be able to have an "endowment" that would make the commune fully self-sustaining. Paying rent through labor/chores would obviously be an option, since not everyone will need/want/be able to hold conventional employment all the time.

I'd think that the way to go would indeed be to convert an old hotel, apartment building, or something of that nature (assuming you could get away with it zoning-wise). Worst case you incorporate and run it as a "hotel", which would probably be workable, though then you'd be subject to health inspections and such. Hotels already have the private/semi-private rooms and bathrooms, most of the plumbing done, available open areas, etc. which makes the required remodeling less expensive.

Overall, I'd say that it seems like it has a good chance of working, especially if it's well-organized at the beginning. The trick, as always, is finding thirty-odd "roommates" that you can live in close proximity to without eventually having some tensions boil over.
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Grakelin

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Re: Geek Commune
« Reply #144 on: May 28, 2010, 02:11:32 am »

The largest this commune could be is 32 people

Where did you get that number? Did you just pull it out of your ass?
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DJ

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Re: Geek Commune
« Reply #145 on: May 28, 2010, 06:09:43 am »

What, a commune without pot? Screw that.
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qwertyuiopas

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Re: Geek Commune
« Reply #146 on: May 28, 2010, 06:45:49 am »

The largest this commune could be is 32 people

Where did you get that number? Did you just pull it out of your ass?

It's 2^5, it's a valid random reasonable number. 16 probably too small, 64 way to large.
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Aqizzar

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Re: Geek Commune
« Reply #147 on: May 28, 2010, 06:52:38 am »

Is 2 a random number?  I kid.  But if I was pulling a number out of my ass for a commune made of members of this forum (since let's be honest, we couldn't sell anyone else on the idea), I would have said like twenty.  I suppose some price-break analysis is in order, based on likely incomes, likely consumption, and property cost.
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qwertyuiopas

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Re: Geek Commune
« Reply #148 on: May 28, 2010, 06:59:56 am »

Then numbers I see most likely to come up, and my percieved reasons:

07 (7 dwarves!)
14 (multiple of 7)
15 (multiple of 5)
16 (2^4)
20 (multiple of 5)
21 (multiple of 7)
25 (multiple of 5)
28 (multiple of 7)
30 (multiple of 5)
32 (2^5)
42 (The Meaning of Life, The Universe, and Everything)

This is assuming that a multiple of 5 wold be selected for being a nice round number, a multiple of 7 for the Dwarf Fortress reference, and powers of two as that would be a geeky answer.
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Armok

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Re: Geek Commune
« Reply #149 on: May 28, 2010, 08:38:44 am »

Another thing: dont forget that you all met in a forum for an ASCII game.
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