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[LeoLeonardoIII]

I like the attempt at trying to claim something new. But it's not a "zero player game". You guys are playing it. You're just playing a game where you indirectly influence an AI character. It is a game and you are playing it.

Progress Quest was not a game, it was a toy, because you couldn't interact with it at all. As such it also was not a ZPG.

In fact, if a thing is designed so as to accomodate zero players, I would think it very difficult to claim that it was a game at all. I'm not talking about a game that currently has no players, such as a discarded Backgammon board. I'm saying that if the thing was never designed for input it might not be a game. Like, say, a blank mousepad. Interaction is possible, and you can use it as a prop in your own game, but it is not in itself a game. Same with Excel, or a file management program, or a pocket calculator, or a wristwatch.

[Micro102]

such weird items

    * whole lot of nothing
    * step of career ladder
    * envelope for e-mail

[Sean Mirrsen]

Actually, you're not playing. All your input is encourage/punish and any text you want to shout. You're like the helper guy for the boxer in the ring - you're there and you have an effect, but you're not actually in the game.

If Majesty offered no direct control at all - that is, you couldn't place buildings or rewards, and were limited to generally blessing or cursing the kingdom, and shout some text in hopes the game understands it - then it'd be a zero player game. Of course, it's not absolutely zero, as a true zero player game has absolutely no player input. But if the game can play itself without you, it's zero-player whenever you're not looking.

[LeoLeonardoIII]

An MMO is an MMO regardless of how many players are actually playing. Otherwise we could call my copy of Tetris a zero-player game which is clearly is not.

You do have control, in the form of encourage / punish. If encourage / punish doesn't actually do anything, then you have no controls. At that point it is no longer a game, like Progress Quest.

I mean, come on. You can't just call anything a game. My shoe is not a game, even if I find it entertaining. If we call anything a game, then the word game becomes meaningless. Not that it needs to be all prissy like people who talk about "Art". But when I say game I don't mean "virtual fishtank".

[Micro102]

lol Orly owl....

anyway zero player game isn't a very accurate term. Zero Role Playing Players Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game would be more accurate.....ZRPPMMORP 

[Sean Mirrsen]

Actually, that's true for any MMO since WoW. And generally, for any MMO with graphics.

ZPGs are games that don't require player input to continue indefinetly, or won't prematurely end due to player inaction. Space Rangers on easy difficulty could play itself to victory if the player didn't need to keep hitting the spacebar. The Sims could live forever if their lives weren't so thoroughly guided by the player. Dwarves in a well-automated fortress would survive forever if automation was thorough enough to include trading and replanting seeds. Those are all NOT ZPGs. But a game where you can just leave and the game will think nothing of it, is a ZPG.

[LeoLeonardoIII]

I just don't see the distinction.

[Sean Mirrsen]

In your terms, if it's a virtual fishtank but you can push the fish around, it's a ZPG.
I can't recall the right PopCap game name at the moment (Feeding Frenzy or Insaniquarium?), but it was an example of a virtual fishtank that's NOT a ZPG because your fish die if you don't feed them (and don't kill the aliens).

[Shadowgandor]

Enemy             Charlie the Unicorn

DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIED

[LeoLeonardoIII]

But if you can push your fish around, then you are playing. Hence it becomes a single-player game. You are a player playing a game.

If your fish can interact with other fish, it is a multi-player game.

But if your fish's activities are just posted to compare to everyone else, it's a Single-Player Game with online rankings.

If you can't interact with your fish at all, it's just a virtual fishtank and it's more rightly called a "toy".

[LeoLeonardoIII]

Look, I get that he's trying to make his thing sound like it's a new thing. It's just not a new thing.

I can't just call my watermelon a Disco Pony Express and expect people to take me seriously. It's not a DPE. It's a watermelon.

[Micro102]

If you really want to make it a ZPG just go to profile and turn your remote control off...

[LeoLeonardoIII]

If you really want to make it a ZPG just go to profile and turn your remote control off...

<whisper>But then it is not a game anymore</whisper>

[Sean Mirrsen]

It might not be completely new, but the name is new.

I don't know what Progress Quest is, but this here is a ZPG, as it plays itself. A single-player game is a game that is designed to be played by one player. A multi-player game is a game that is designed to be played by more than one player. A Zero-Player game is designed to play itself, even though one can play it. Anything less is not a game at all, but a demo/video/simulation/etc.

[LeoLeonardoIII]

I understand the point you're making about a classification of a zero-player game now.

I still think the "game" becomes a "not game" when it enters the zero-player classification.

Hence "zero-player game" is an oxymoron to me, just not a possible state among the many that we have available.

I feel this guy is just trying to promote his thing by giving it a new name that doesn't actually fit.