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[Soadreqm]

I've never actually played the game, but I think I've read something about the candle. A good-aligned cleric can use it to either boost his level for four hours, or open a magical portal to heaven and call forth a divine emissary who casts spells as a 20th-level cleric and can use his godly powers to create you a new candle out of raw firmament.

The economy is just crazy. If the world wasn't filled with always chaotic evil monsters wanting to destroy everything that is good, the planes would have seen a magic-fueled technological singularity ages ago.

[Pandarsenic]

"I made a magic construct whose purpose is to design and make smarter and more powerful magical constructs with the same purpose."

[Pathos]

The economy is just crazy. If the world wasn't filled with always chaotic evil monsters wanting to destroy everything that is good, the planes would have seen a magic-fueled technological singularity ages ago.

To be honest, that's the reason I hate magic (and advanced technology and psychic powers and pretty much everything) in fiction. There's so many uses for it, and yet it's never explained why it doesn't get used or any of that crap. You have to put really constraining rules in otherwise you end up with a plotholes spring up all over the place like dwarves with bad livers.

[beorn080]

I somehow doubt that Candle is even an official item seeing as it is underpriced.

The candle is from the SRD. Not only is it official, its part of the base set. If you really wanted, I could get you a picture of the Candle from my 3.0 DM's guide. The proper way to abuse the candle is to summon up an Efreet,also from the SRD, which allows you to command the Efreet to grant you three wishes, and since wish can be completed in a standard action, that's a mere three rounds, well within the limit for free services. One wish for a new candle, and two for improved stats, permancied magic effects, magic weapons and items up to 25k each casting, and other sundry effects.

Actually, I just read wish, and the relevant passage for magic items is

Create a magic item, or add to the powers of an existing magic item.

There is no limit to costs on that. Since its a SLA, the creature pays no XP for it, so you can fill out with +5 vorpal dancing keen scythes. God, I miss 3.0's version which had a limit of 25k for creation of objects.

[a1s]

The candle is from the SRD. Not only is it official, its part of the base set. If you really wanted, I could get you a picture of the Candle from my 3.0 DM's guide. The proper way to abuse the candle is to summon up an Efreet,also from the SRD, which allows you to command the Efreet to grant you three wishes, and since wish can be completed in a standard action, that's a mere three rounds, well within the limit for free services. One wish for a new candle, and two for improved stats, permancied magic effects, magic weapons and items up to 25k each casting, and other sundry effects.

Actually, I just read wish, and the relevant passage for magic items is

Create a magic item, or add to the powers of an existing magic item.

There is no limit to costs on that. Since its a SLA, the creature pays no XP for it, so you can fill out with +5 vorpal dancing keen scythes. God, I miss 3.0's version which had a limit of 25k for creation of objects.

I'm pretty sure you still have to pay the XP costs. If the spell is cast by the candle, not you, then obviously you can't command the efreet, as you are not the caster. In any case this is not a candle bug, but a gate spell bug (you can wish for a custom item that specifically does gate X times per day, instead of the candle).

[Pandarsenic]

If the spell is cast by the candle, not you, then obviously you can't command the efreet, as you are not the caster.

In addition, burning a candle also allows the owner to cast a gate spell, the respondent being of the same alignment  as the candle, but the taper is immediately consumed in the process.

[beorn080]

If the spell is cast by the candle, not you, then obviously you can't command the efreet, as you are not the caster.

In addition, burning a candle also allows the owner to cast a gate spell, the respondent being of the same alignment  as the candle, but the taper is immediately consumed in the process.

Also, from the SRD

A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus or have an XP cost. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability’s use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component.

That means you CAN, for a mere 8400 GP, command that efreet to make you pretty much anything. If you have access to the magic item compendium, which gives far "improved" item crafting rules I think, might be a different book, you can get whatever you want, slotless, as many as you want.

[a1s]

Nope, sorry, can't have cake and eat it*. It says there in a very specific manner that you cast the spell. it's not any sort of ability.
Plus if you happen to have that extra 1k of EXP, just ask the efreet to refund you for it with one of the wishes.

________________________________
*that's an odd thing to say, BTW: "having" cake is a synonym (euphemism?) for eating it.

[Soadreqm]

Or does the Efreet have Wish as a spell-like ability? That'd break it.

[Pandarsenic]

Or does the Efreet have Wish as a spell-like ability? That'd break it.

Bingo.

[a1s]

wish-yes.
gate-no.
so you'll be using up 1k of EXP with every summon. That's a great trade off, considering what you get in return, but that makes it non-free.

[LeoLeonardoIII]

:/

This is why you have a referee.

Player: I read off the scroll of Gate, bring in an Efreet. My first two wishes are for two more Gate scrolls, and my third wish is for a +5 Vorpal Scythe.
DM: I get what you're doing. Do you guys still want to play this game? Because I have things I can do on a Saturday night.
Player: Well can I get away with it just once?
DM: Uh, let's see. Trade a 4,000 GP scroll for three 200,000 GP scythes. All signs point to no.

Honestly, does anyone ever actually do these stupid things or do people just perpetually wank about them on the WotC forums? I have come across several dozen player scams, often me doing the scamming, over the years. We just end up making a gentleman's agreement not to do it.

One very simple, perhaps the most basic example. This is from 2E where Fire Trap doesn't have an expensive material component:

Fire Trap is cast on a container or enclosure. It goes off if the enclosure is opened. But clearly it should go off if the enclosure is bashed open, also. You cast it on a chest, and if someone opens the chest or breaks it, the Fire Trap goes off.

So the scam is to cast Fire Trap on a small clay jar. You put more clay jars, with Fire Trap, in the bag. It has to be heavy enough to throw. Each jar is sealed with pitch to be airtight. Now in each jar you stick a tight bundle of tiny paper envelopes, glued shut, and tied with string. Each of these dozen envelopes has a Fire Trap cast upon it.

Now you throw the bag at something. Each of the clay pots in the bag needs to save vs. crushing blow. If one of them fails, the flames erupting from it will burn the pitch off the others, opening them and burning the paper bundles, which sets off the Fire Traps. If you break two jars, it goes off instantly, but if you break just one then the DM might rule that the fire has to take a round to burn through the pitch and ignite the envelopes of the other jars.

1d4 damage +2 per caster level. This can be cast by a 3rd level Cleric. Ten jars per bag, 12 envelopes per jar. That's 120d4+720, save for half, in a 5' diameter explosion.

Sure there are risks associated with carrying around these things. Don't get hit by fire! But it can really screw with the game. So our agreement was that it was cool so long as you didn't have more than one Fire Trap per throw. So Fire Trapping a big flask of oil was perfectly fine.

And we were cool with that.

[fenrif]

It depends on what kind of game you're trying to play I suppose, some groups might like D&D for this exact type of specific silliness

[LeoLeonardoIII]

True. But in that case, why not just hand the players the Dungeon Master's Guide and have them spend the next couple hours filling in whatever magic items they want?

I'm still confused why you'd play D&D instead of, say, sitting around BSing with your friends.

[beorn080]

wish-yes.
gate-no.
so you'll be using up 1k of EXP with every summon. That's a great trade off, considering what you get in return, but that makes it non-free.

You use one of the Efreet's wishes for another Candle of Invocation. Then burn that one for another gate targeted at another Efreet.

I will admit it is on the FAR end of cheese, sitting right below Pun Pun in terms of completely legal but books will be thrown.