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[Sfon]

Ever noticed how easy it is to play an Elven character in D&D? It's a template you're familiar with, you know how they work, you've had plenty of exposure to them.

I'm trying to point out how pointless it is to have a stick up one's bum as to X being more legit. That people accept that these things don't exist, and that no-one's picture of them is the legit one, was my main point. My other point was that this attitude exists to the point of being super-excessive.

I'm not saying that fantasy races should not be humans with different "hats", often differing less in habit than real human cultures do. I'm not even arguing against some hats being common. I do find it pathetic that elfs and such seem to differ as much in fantasy as Klingons do between the original Star Trek and the The Next Generation.

Consider this: Cute, albino 'dwarves' calling themselves 'okknu' who wear dwarven/okknan sunglasses and value hair because they have so little natural protection from the sun. Not like human albinism, as their bodies are designed around not having pigment rather than it being an unexpected thing that breaks much more than sun-resistance. That is probably the most different dwarf concept you will ever hear despite easily fitting in two sentences, one of which being only a clarification. I even made the one psychological thing, valuing long hair, to just be a different take on a trait of the standard fantasy dwarf. I refuse to believe that would be different enough to cause significant role-playing problems.

I'm not trying to take away your D&D elves, man. Just don't insist that D&D elves are the only true elves for all of fantasy, and we are cool.

[Zajadu]

I'm not trying to take away your D&D elves, man. Just don't insist that D&D elves are the only true elves for all of fantasy, and we are cool.

They're just the coolest elves.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[DarthCloakedDwarf]

Ever noticed how easy it is to play an Elven character in D&D? It's a template you're familiar with, you know how they work, you've had plenty of exposure to them.

I'm trying to point out how pointless it is to have a stick up one's bum as to X being more legit. That people accept that these things don't exist, and that no-one's picture of them is the legit one, was my main point. My other point was that this attitude exists to the point of being super-excessive.

I'm not saying that fantasy races should not be humans with different "hats", often differing less in habit than real human cultures do. I'm not even arguing against some hats being common. I do find it pathetic that elfs and such seem to differ as much in fantasy as Klingons do between the original Star Trek and the The Next Generation.

Consider this: Cute, albino 'dwarves' calling themselves 'okknu' who wear dwarven/okknan sunglasses and value hair because they have so little natural protection from the sun. Not like human albinism, as their bodies are designed around not having pigment rather than it being an unexpected thing that breaks much more than sun-resistance. That is probably the most different dwarf concept you will ever hear despite easily fitting in two sentences, one of which being only a clarification. I even made the one psychological thing, valuing long hair, to just be a different take on a trait of the standard fantasy dwarf. I refuse to believe that would be different enough to cause significant role-playing problems.

I'm not trying to take away your D&D elves, man. Just don't insist that D&D elves are the only true elves for all of fantasy, and we are cool.

I'm not trying to take away your variety, either. But don't start telling me that vampires sparkle, or I will eat your soul.

[Eric Blank]

but vampire DO sparkle!




When you throw gasoline on them! hehehe

[Intelligent Shade of Blue]

but vampire DO sparkle!




When you throw gasoline on them! hehehe

Or throw magic garlic dust on them.

[Rumrusher]

wait isn't threetoe the lore writer of the dwarf fortress series? so wouldn't the reason why goblins seem immortal was from the crossbreeding in the snatcher (crossbreeding that was never seen, like demons joining your fort and wrecking it from the inside... dang).

that or they made a deal of immortality with demons early in time and now in 31.# the two have a mutual relationship. which is why we got more demons in human forts. 

[Josephus]

wait isn't threetoe the lore writer of the dwarf fortress series? so wouldn't the reason why goblins seem immortal was from the crossbreeding in the snatcher (crossbreeding that was never seen, like demons joining your fort and wrecking it from the inside... dang).

that or they made a deal of immortality with demons early in time and now in 31.# the two have a mutual relationship. which is why we got more demons in human forts. 

The reason for goblin immortality hasn't been explained yet, but some forum members have noted that it could be an explanation for why they're a race of assholes.

[Rumrusher]

wait isn't threetoe the lore writer of the dwarf fortress series? so wouldn't the reason why goblins seem immortal was from the crossbreeding in the snatcher (crossbreeding that was never seen, like demons joining your fort and wrecking it from the inside... dang).

that or they made a deal of immortality with demons early in time and now in 31.# the two have a mutual relationship. which is why we got more demons in human forts. 

The reason for goblin immortality hasn't been explained yet, but some forum members have noted that it could be an explanation for why they're a race of assholes.

so all the stories three toe wrote can't be use to explain why certain events happen in dwarf fortress? dang I thought that was the main reason why he writes them to get us into the world of dwarf fortress

[Josephus]

wait isn't threetoe the lore writer of the dwarf fortress series? so wouldn't the reason why goblins seem immortal was from the crossbreeding in the snatcher (crossbreeding that was never seen, like demons joining your fort and wrecking it from the inside... dang).

that or they made a deal of immortality with demons early in time and now in 31.# the two have a mutual relationship. which is why we got more demons in human forts. 

The reason for goblin immortality hasn't been explained yet, but some forum members have noted that it could be an explanation for why they're a race of assholes.

so all the stories three toe wrote can't be use to explain why certain events happen in dwarf fortress? dang I thought that was the main reason why he writes them to get us into the world of dwarf fortress

Each world you generate is essentially another universe, broseph. Does it happen the same way, everywhere? So, 2d to 3d follows a linear timeline? And then on to 40d, and on to 2010? Oh, gee, Urist, see, one day, everything was three-dimensional! Whaddaya-fucking-know!

[Rumrusher]

  maybe maybe they learn that the world isn't flat durin... I'm just going to let you guys continue to debate on lore from other series.
sorry I question it.

[Josephus]

maybe maybe they learn that the world isn't flat durin... I'm just going to let you guys continue to debate on lore from other series.
sorry I question it.

Toady and ThreeToe have said that DF is essentially one big fantasy story generator. ThreeToe's stories are what could have happened - not necessarily what did happen. It's really all up to you.

[Supermikhail]

WARNING -  SELF-RIGHTIOUS RANT - WARNING
As for Warcraft or even Tolkien being some sort of authority, gimme a frikken break! They are just getting material from old myths which themselves were inconsistent. They didn't invent these things and neither did D&D. I understand there are many fans of such works, but they themselves could not exist without the ability to re-imagine these things.

If anything is a problem, it is that there is so little creativity in fantasy. Like if all SF had Klingons and Romulans clearly ripped from Star-Trek, and SF fans argued if every Klingon/Romulan in everything wasn't like the ones in whatever SF they happened to like most at the moment. It is because of stuff like this that fantasy is such garbage compared even to space operas like Star Trek which barely do enough research to be believable to those who stayed awake through half of science class.

TL:DR Stating Tolkien/Warcraft to others as some sort of authority is juvenile nonsense. The closest to a legit source is a messy wad of very inconsistent myths. Not saying debating/discussing them in general is bad, just the claims of authority.

Have you ever noticed how easy it is to work with fantasy? To make a RPG campaign? To play in one? You know the basics of what's there. You know there are elves, and how they work. You know there are dwarves, and how they work. You know there are goblins, and kobolds, and how they work.

Have you ever noticed how hard it is to make something coherent in sci-fi working with others? You have nothing that is standard. No races. Nothing. In order to play a character in a setting, you need to do a CRAPTON of research into their species, their culture, their history, or you will NEVER get it right.

Ever noticed how easy it is to play an Elven character in D&D? It's a template you're familiar with, you know how they work, you've had plenty of exposure to them.

Now, try playing a Sullustan. Good freaking luck.

...And one day Mr. James Cameron decides that he wouldn't mind another couple hundred million dollars. And releases Avatar. And in a month everybody roleplays Na'vi as if they were in all faerie tales their mother used to tell them when they were children...

[Kogan Loloklam]

...And one day Mr. James Cameron decides that he wouldn't mind another couple hundred million dollars. And releases Avatar. And in a month everybody roleplays Na'vi as if they were in all faerie tales their mother used to tell them when they were children...

To be fair, the entire cultural being that Mr. James Cameron and his crack team of writers (and by that I mean crack-addicted) created was ripped off of real cultures here on earth. So what he really did was allow them to get over their guilt while still being deep in their guilt and RP the POV of the "oppressed indigs"

of course what he failed to recognize is those indigs had been oppressing themselves for hundreds of years, and all that really happened was an outside force did what was common to be done to them, hence why they didn't really get upset until racism came into the picture a little later (after it was too late to unite their disease-devistated forces under one banner, which they couldn't do any better than Europe could unite today to fight off an attack by china on the Falklands area. You really think Greece would give a shit?)

[Josephus]

...And one day Mr. James Cameron decides that he wouldn't mind another couple hundred million dollars. And releases Avatar. And in a month everybody roleplays Na'vi as if they were in all faerie tales their mother used to tell them when they were children...

To be fair, the entire cultural being that Mr. James Cameron and his crack team of writers (and by that I mean crack-addicted) created was ripped off of real cultures here on earth. So what he really did was allow them to get over their guilt while still being deep in their guilt and RP the POV of the "oppressed indigs"

of course what he failed to recognize is those indigs had been oppressing themselves for hundreds of years, and all that really happened was an outside force did what was common to be done to them, hence why they didn't really get upset until racism came into the picture a little later (after it was too late to unite their disease-devistated forces under one banner, which they couldn't do any better than Europe could unite today to fight off an attack by china on the Falklands area. You really think Greece would give a shit?)

(humanity fuck yeah)

[Askot Bokbondeler]

navi are more like generic elves than indians tough, as they are magical and in communion with nature, and so awesome and cute. they're like the mary sue of mary sues, designed so everyone would fall in love with them or want to be like them...god, they're cheaper than sparkly vampires

i have one thing to say on fantasy stereotypes: darksun