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[Rex_Nex]

Trolls in warcraft and Tolkien's trolls have one massive difference: Warcraft trolls arnt huge, sluggish, club-wielding brutes. Warcraft's are closer to Tolkien's Uruk-Hai, and Tolkien's are closer to Warcraft's ogres.

[Bronzebeard]

Trolls in warcraft and Tolkien's trolls have one massive difference: Warcraft trolls arnt huge, sluggish, club-wielding brutes. Warcraft's are closer to Tolkien's Uruk-Hai, and Tolkien's are closer to Warcraft's ogres.

*Nods.* Trolls in Dwarf Fortress seem fairly large (Warcraft trolls are around 7'0") and have two distinct tusks. Further, Mayday's troll sprite nearly resembles a Warcraft troll, leading me to imagine them as such. And while I'm willing to consider goblins average, man-sized hell-raisers -- although their equipment now seems dwarven-sized, indicating they may have shrunk -- they do seem like they'd be dirty, backward, largely uneducated and naturally savage creatures, on the whole. That said, immortality is usually reserved for nobler, more elegant beings such as elves or dragons.

Short of being endowed with some eternal, unholy vigor by their demonic masters, I wouldn't expect their biology (if their very lifestyle) to afford them very long lives.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

trolls are hairy, ugly and magical, troll comes from a scandinavian word for magic. theoretically, troll is a word for every pagan deity or spirit, and possibly for every pagan deity worshiper. dwarves, elves and giants are trolls, as are witches and wizards. generically, trolls in fairy tales have very diversified apearances, usually big, hairy, ugly and antropophagous, often with several heads, and holding a christian maiden as a prisioner. exepted from the pagan-deity-is-troll rule are the tomtar, a kind of household spirit, in the form of a little old man

goblin and kobold derive from the same germanic word for a mischievous or evil spirit. these are powerfull magical tricksters that often take the form of animals or are invisible.

[truckman1]

Why does Tolkien call all those species ugly? In who's opinion? Their own? Also, for whatever its worth, i've always imagined DF goblins to be slightly smarter versions of the goblins in the elder scrolls. Not as smart as in Warcraft, but smart enough to build obsidian towers and make a utopian society capable of surviving long after any of them have died, their legacy carried on by their kidnapees.

[Rose]

Trolls in warcraft and Tolkien's trolls have one massive difference: Warcraft trolls arnt huge, sluggish, club-wielding brutes. Warcraft's are closer to Tolkien's Uruk-Hai, and Tolkien's are closer to Warcraft's ogres.

*Nods.* Trolls in Dwarf Fortress seem fairly large (Warcraft trolls are around 7'0") and have two distinct tusks. Further, Mayday's troll sprite nearly resembles a Warcraft troll, leading me to imagine them as such.

eh, I see trolls as being more like this guy:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And while I'm willing to consider goblins elves average, man-sized hell-raisers -- although their equipment now seems dwarven-sized, indicating they may have shrunk -- they do seem like they'd be dirty, backward, largely uneducated and naturally savage creatures, on the whole. That said, immortality is usually reserved for nobler, more elegant beings such as elves goblins or dragons.

Short of being endowed with some eternal, unholy vigor by their demonic masters, I wouldn't expect their biology (if their very lifestyle) to afford them very long lives.

fixed that for you.

I don't care what anybody says, DF goblins are freaking noble.

just read them threetoe stories.

specifically this one.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

Why does Tolkien call all those species ugly? In who's opinion? Their own? Also, for whatever its worth, i've always imagined DF goblins to be slightly smarter versions of the goblins in the elder scrolls. Not as smart as in Warcraft, but smart enough to build obsidian towers and make a utopian society capable of surviving long after any of them have died, their legacy carried on by their kidnapees.

it's not tolkiens opinion, tolkien took those creatures from folklore.
i have very little consideration for dwarf fortress stereotypes, i know where the raws are, and goblins are whatever i want them to be. besides, df is a fantasy world generator, it doesn't have a canon world or a canon history, why should it have canon cultures attributed to canon races? i think that every bit of "canonicity" in df as a placeholder for a future procedurally generated feature.

[Glanzor]

I think goblin immortality makes a lot of sense actually.
DF is mostly based on Tolkien's lore. Tolkien used Golbin as a synonym for Orc and in his books, Orcs were immortal since they were basically corrupted elves.

[Bronzebeard]

I think goblin immortality makes a lot of sense actually.
DF is mostly based on Tolkien's lore. Tolkien used Golbin as a synonym for Orc and in his books, Orcs were immortal since they were basically corrupted elves.

Sorry, but orcs are unrelated to elves; they come from Draenor, whence they were usurped by Kil'Jaeden and the Legion (via Gul'dan) in their search for Velen and the draenei across the cosmos!

Tolkien needs to get his facts straight.

[truckman1]

I think goblin immortality makes a lot of sense actually.
DF is mostly based on Tolkien's lore. Tolkien used Golbin as a synonym for Orc and in his books, Orcs were immortal since they were basically corrupted elves.

Hurm, I never warmed up to the idea Orcs are corrupted elves for whatever reason, I suppose that Warcraft/hammer style orcs and their huge greenness has influenced how I picture them. And besides, this is Dwarf Fortress, and "corrupted elves" implies elves are pure, and not bastards.



Speaking of which, I don't really get how an entire species can be considered "evil." Sure, there society and culture can make them all complete jackasses and even sometimes evil(i.e. elves), but why is it like "there evil, all of them."  Like, look at Elder Scrolls, Orcs are perfectly normal members of society in that game.

Sorry, but orcs are unrelated to elves; they come from Draenor, whence they were usurped by Kil'Jaeden and the Legion (via Gul'dan) in their search for Velen and the draenei across the cosmos!

Tolkien needs to get his facts straight.

Dem Orkz isn't Orky enuf.

Get 'em boyz!
Dakka dakka dakka!
WAAAGH! THE ORKS!
WAAAGH!
         –Rotgob, Ork strategist

[Funk]

DF goblins all way seem to be to be the anti DF elves, not evil out right like in most works.
in this world goblins are the only one that care for the kid of others,even a fair Division of labour is embraced as the right of all adult citizens, yes citizens not only elves or dwarfs but any and all can join.
 

[Deon]

Yep, elves worship nature and do not care for personal interests much, they are a zerg-like race. Goblins instead are ultra egoistic and do not care for the nature. They are very close to real life humans, well minus the crazy anarchy rules ("if you are good enough to do it, you can do it").

[Glanzor]

Sorry, but orcs are unrelated to elves; they come from Draenor, whence they were usurped by Kil'Jaeden and the Legion (via Gul'dan) in their search for Velen and the draenei across the cosmos!

Tolkien needs to get his facts straight.

WHAT? You are questioning the infallibility of the Great Prophet Tolkien! Heresy!

And besides, Blizzard change the backstory of their characters way to often to be taken serious as an authority on anything as far as I'm concerned.

[Spartan 117]

Sorry, but orcs are unrelated to elves; they come from Draenor, whence they were usurped by Kil'Jaeden and the Legion (via Gul'dan) in their search for Velen and the draenei across the cosmos!

Tolkien needs to get his facts straight.

And then a space marine came and became leader of the Scarlet Crusade, and kicked the Burning Legion in the face, and developed an unwanted harem.

I read it in a story.

[Bronzebeard]

Sorry, but orcs are unrelated to elves; they come from Draenor, whence they were usurped by Kil'Jaeden and the Legion (via Gul'dan) in their search for Velen and the draenei across the cosmos!

Tolkien needs to get his facts straight.

WHAT? You are questioning the infallibility of the Great Prophet Tolkien! Heresy!

And besides, Blizzard change the backstory of their characters way to often to be taken serious as an authority on anything as far as I'm concerned.

Not really. Most people say this in regards to the Blood Elves, with very little knowledge of the lore; the Blood Elves were enslaved and discriminated against by the humans with only a short, ad hoc alliance to Cenarius' night elven expeditionary forces to Lordaeron.

The depth and breadth of their lore is amazing, but many people are oblivious to it since Warcraft is better known in the form a game rather than the novels holding its "backstory" up -- and mind you that WoW doesn't strictly follow canon. Arthas, for instance, never had a motorcycle. That's just in fun for the sake of the players of the MMO. :3

[truckman1]

Sorry, but orcs are unrelated to elves; they come from Draenor, whence they were usurped by Kil'Jaeden and the Legion (via Gul'dan) in their search for Velen and the draenei across the cosmos!

Tolkien needs to get his facts straight.

WHAT? You are questioning the infallibility of the Great Prophet Tolkien! Heresy!

And besides, Blizzard change the backstory of their characters way to often to be taken serious as an authority on anything as far as I'm concerned.

Not really. Most people say this in regards to the Blood Elves, with very little knowledge of the lore; the Blood Elves were enslaved and discriminated against by the humans with only a short, ad hoc alliance to Cenarius' night elven expeditionary forces to Lordaeron.

The depth and breadth of their lore is amazing, but many people are oblivious to it since Warcraft is better known in the form a game rather than the novels holding its "backstory" up -- and mind you that WoW doesn't strictly follow canon. Arthas, for instance, never had a motorcycle. That's just in fun for the sake of the players of the MMO. :3

Once upon a time there were Eredar.


Then suddenly, Windchimes!