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Poll

In your fortresses layout, which is more important to you?

Style: the way it feels, if it looks cool and appealing;
Function: Ordered and Logical so you know where everything is;
Neither: You're fortresses are unordered and random.

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Author Topic: Fortress Design: Style over Function?  (Read 6432 times)

GlyphGryph

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Re: Fortress Design: Style over Function?
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2010, 06:54:18 pm »

Since I've pretty much limited myself at this point to carving actual undercities in as organic a way as possible (to the point of carving my own lakes, islands, bridges, rivers, cave complexes and such for scenery around it) I think I'd have to go with style.
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LordZorintrhox

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Re: Fortress Design: Style over Function?
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2010, 08:07:34 pm »

I work modularly for function, but with style where it counts, like dining halls, mega projects, fortress entrances, and so on.  I've tried organic under cities, and it was time consuming but worth it.  The market square was an awesome 3 story plaza with a well and tavern.
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...but their muscles would also end up looking like someone wrapped pink steel bridge-cables around a fire hydrant and then shrink-wrapped it in a bearskin.

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Itnetlolor

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Re: Fortress Design: Style over Function?
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2010, 09:13:52 pm »

I work modularly for function, but with style where it counts, like dining halls, mega projects, fortress entrances, and so on.  I've tried organic under cities, and it was time consuming but worth it.  The market square was an awesome 3 story plaza with a well and tavern.
I've worked on modular design myself. It would've worked awesomely on an island fort I would've made, but those damn aquifers kinda busted the prospect.

That aside, I had a setup work sorta XCOM-ish, or more like Dune/C&C tiling. Each tile being a 10x10 (shift-direction) scaled.

[] - Small structures/towers

[][]
[][] - Larger  (Medium) Structures, warehouses, factories

[][][]
[][][] - Enormous (Large) structures, palaces, town center, missile silo, dry-dock/starport, stadium/execution grounds
[][][]

[][][][][]
[][][][][]
[][][][][] - Embark Tile (Enormous), seriously, what else would be the point of structures this la-- Megaproject.
[][][][][]
[][][][][]

Usually comes standard with an underground infrastructure connecting structures together one way or another, and maybe even a catwalk system to link from above. This works best in the previous DF version (28.40d) since caverns wouldn't interfere as much; but if you can take advantage of that then bonus. If you can harass Hell with such building, dwarfy.

I'd personally love to see someone make a fully functional dwarven city using this modular building method. Dwarfhattan. Bonus points if it can be built on a long island. Even more points if you can build a dwarven replica of New York City, or equally large city.

Hell, since I mentioned it before, build a replica of an X-Com base. Similar tiling or scaling even. You may need to refer to actual game screens or any wikis that may still exist on the game. Heck, the alien bases are rather dwarfy in design. They have plump helmet farms and everything.

EDIT:
If anyone has ever played Dune (The RTS versions), replicate a functional base, construction yard and everything. Use the game as a map to base off of. Windtraps should be simple to make, just make multi-layered half-domes with windmills all over the place where they can catch wind. Bonus points if you can build this at an actual desert, on rock exclusively. The sand isn't a strong enough foundation. Bonus points if the structures can match the game sprites. If you can find, tame, and ride sandworms, then those aren't dwarves, they're Fremdwarves. Have fun spice-farming. Hmm... sounds like an interesting mod idea. Dune Fortress.

Dwarves would make perfect Fremen, they live in seitch communities already. Why not? We'll need to generate a desert-world however to complete the mod; minimal water, usually as underground rivers or lakes. Not a single aquifer. Each race can be separate houses.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2010, 09:50:28 pm by Itnetlolor »
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AtomicPaperclip

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Re: Fortress Design: Style over Function?
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2010, 10:16:19 pm »

I generally try to find a middle ground
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Corona688

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Re: Fortress Design: Style over Function?
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2010, 11:23:25 pm »

My first few forts were unorganized messes, it became pretty obvious how much a hindrance that was when you had no places to put water and magma, farms dozens of tiles from processing, etc, etc.

My first large-scale logical design looked like a flowchart, an immense factory hollowed out of one layer of dirt.  I actually have that one up, visible here.  I abandoned this part when I realized dwarves were still moving unnecessarily huge distances and moved everything into an immense stone hexagon, organized by layers.  Here's the dining area, POI exist for lots of different spots.  Sadly this fort had to be abandoned to bugs;  pathing problems were so bad that even invaders and dragons couldn't find their way in, let alone migrants and caravans.

Now I'm working on a slightly more freeform design.  It's a big hollowed-out sphere underground.  Different layers have different functions, more or less randomly as I need them, but organized within themselves to be fairly efficient.  Softgoods all one one floor, starting with threshing and ending in clothesmaking;  magma layer actually two layers, a big magma-filled donut with shop on top and bar storage inside;  dig out more habitation layers whenever needed, with small half-sector rooms for dwarves and big pie-slice rooms for nobles;  farm rooms near the bottom created by pump stack, dining near the top for no good reason, etc, etc.  Everything's migrating gradually down except finished-goods storage, and even that might someday when I figure out a sensible way to bring caravans deep, deep into the fortress without letting in goblins along the way.
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UnLimiTeD

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Re: Fortress Design: Style over Function?
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2010, 05:00:09 am »

Function.
I let my dwarves sleep outside/in barracks up to a year until I found a good place for sleeping quarters.
I'm not much into symmetry, aside from the bedroom designs, but efficiency often dictates that as well.
However, I still prefer to have a lot of walls for defense, and to seperate parts of the fortress for the "style" projects I can afford with all that efficiency, like, huge Dining Halls.
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LoSboccacc

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Re: Fortress Design: Style over Function?
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2010, 05:45:51 am »

style! I'll always search for a good looking mountain site, giving the nobles high quarters on cliffs with big glass walls on the side of the cliff, while laborers have their quarter just above the entrance, near the legendary dining hall, meeting room and the garden/zoo room.

the entrance itself is dug out large, smoothed and engraved, with rare metals pillars lined up the caravan wagon path

under the entrance, two levels of huge square stockpiles (two shifted cursor move, never bothered to count the actual size  :P) surrounded by 7x7 workshops, linked by 3 space width tunnels. on the second underground floor a spiral shaped tunnel, ridden with traps, protecting the staircase going down

and then, all the way below, reckless mining of resources until the tantrum spiral. (I always get the tantrum death before forgotten stuff or sieges, duh)
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Kazang

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Re: Fortress Design: Style over Function?
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2010, 06:21:25 am »

I go for style mostly, but without compromising function too much where it matters.  The industrial core of the fortress will have function but it will also have style in the same way a cathedral(for example) is built, it's functional but it's also grand, epic and imposing.
My industrial areas tend to big and epic, while also being efficient.  Making fractal patterns with workshops and stockpiles for instance.

I also try to be organic with the design and let the map and type of stone, terrain, elevation, etc all play a part in where and how things are built.  Colour coding with stone is also important. I love using mined veins as walkways so they have a natural raw platinum/gold/silver floor.  I really want paint and coloured plaster for my colour coordination and symmetry OCD.   
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FatedTemp

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Re: Fortress Design: Style over Function?
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2010, 06:34:49 am »

I usually go for a mix of the two, so the over all layout is functional with things like workshops right above material stockpiles and item stockpiles above the workshops and the depot above that. Meaning the distance dwarves have to travel is hardly anything at all. But the actual shapes of rooms tend to be symmetrical and I make things like huge open multi-z-level dining rooms with columns that branch out at the ceiling and large winding stairwells, also I never use up/down 'X' stairs, instead I alternate up or down stairs. I voted functional as though it's a style I like I guess it's mainly organized for efficiency.

I've started making more large open areas in my forts, I mean it's not like there's a lack of space with having so many z-levels and it's all building towards Moria style huge open halls with massive columns and bridges spanning the vast chasms underground because that's pretty damn dwarfy, especially if you add magma. But I have tried more organic forts too; just building what I need where it'll fit, but they tend to become a huge mess after 20 or so years.
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Krelos

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Re: Fortress Design: Style over Function?
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2010, 09:51:44 am »

The challenge of design is to be efficient and stylish at the same time and in such a way that no one can tell which was your goal.
If you do it right, everything just looks awesome and flows in a synchronous dance of efficiency.
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zilpin

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Re: Fortress Design: Style over Function?
« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2010, 09:58:13 am »

I find that by focusing on Functionality for initial base design, Style opportunities present themselves later.
Or, Functional below ground, style above.


Most efficient layout I've found so far is a 5x5 central stair, but from the top level ramps go at angles downward and away from each corner.  Storage around the central shaft, long-term storage further toward the bottom.  Limit room access to each other, try to keep them tied to one of the diagonal ramp tunnels, with controlled crossing points.  Workshops mostly arranged vertically.  Putting hatches over ramps lets you continue the hallway at an angle past them.
Big fan of diagonals, and diagonal ramps are very flexible.

That done, above ground is used for Fancy Style, big castles, magma tricks, giant statues, etc, etc, etc.
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