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[TempAcc]

Well, vault city did arise from a vault, so they probably used the vault's equipment for doing things. The GECK had instructions for tons of things, from cement to water purification devices, altough vault city probably just used the vault's water purification systems.

[Sergius]

A fusion generator and some seeds doesn't let you build a big damn city though. That takes a ton of material, time, labor, and heavy construction equipment. More than could reasonably stored in a vault, in my opinion.

The GECK doesn't make you build cities. I don't know what you mean or why it should. It has instructions on how to make "sandcrete" for walls. The generator is enough to run a small city. The seeds are to kickstart some farming.

Here's some info on Avellone's take on the GECK: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_Bible_6#Life_with_the_GECK

Again, nobody's arguing that there should be entire New Yorks built from the ground up everywhere.

[forsaken1111]

The GECK doesn't make you build cities. I don't know what you mean or why it should.

I was specifically referencing Vault City in Fallout 2. The actual vault when you get into it is fairly tiny, no larger than any other vault and doesn't seem to contain any heavy construction equipment or accommodation for legions of workers and yet there's a huge city outside who's success is attributed to them having a GECK. It even has laser turrets and such.

[Sergius]

I wouldn't call the city huge. This isn't space compressed like Fallout 3. We're talking about 103 inhabitants living (official population) in 15 or so adobe houses, ranging from tiny "2x2" huts to two or three major buildings like the government building.

[Sergius]

As a reference, The Hub was much bigger and more densely populated, was made without any magic GECK. And it even had a couple farms!

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Irwin%27s_Farm

[forsaken1111]

It was pretty large in comparison to some other settlements, and rather advanced. Wasn't the Hub just a rebuilt section of a prewar city while Vault City was new construction?

I admit I may be misremembering.

[Sergius]

Vault City was pretty small and sparse. Its main characteristic was that it was advanced and high-tech, not big. The only super-tech that allowed new buildings to be made was adobe or "sandcrete" or whatever, which for some reason nobody else thought of using - maybe because there's so much scrap metal just lying around for walls (sandcrete might be a high-tech version of cement or whatever). And that the inhabitants were pretty isolationist. There were no skyscrapers or anything like that in Vault City. It was tiny huts made out of some arguably "advanced" mud.

I'm pretty sure 200 years is enough for one person to figure out how to make a stone/brick/clay/mud house without advanced Vault tech?

The Hub was pre-war buildings, yes. But the farm(s) around it was new. And this was just 60-something years after the War. You can see the crops right there in the screenshot.

[Rolan7]

The GECK is supposed to have a "replicator" in addition to the power source.  It also has instructions for building a more permanent settlement from deconstructed vault systems, and sand.

The "two per vault" thing is weird.  The computer in Vault 8 does say that, apparently.  It's in the context of a bit of a joke - apparently Vault 13 was supposed to receive a whole box of water chips but got an extra GECK instead. 

Which is weird since it should have had three...  But after Fallout 1 the Vault Dweller leads a group out of Vault 13 and founds Arroyo.  80 years later they're worshiping the *idea* of a GECK, but they certainly never had one.  They're kinda idiots to be honest, maybe the Enclave was on to something there.

Anyway, the "two per vault" statement only comes from the Vault 8 computer that I can tell.  It's hard to explain, since all other evidence points to GECKs being rare as hell.  I only know of three successfully used - Vault City, Arroyo post-FO2, and the *one* found (or ever mentioned!) in the Capital Wasteland.

I guess one could assume that all Western vaults did have two, but nearly all were wastefully looted and the instructions/seeds discarded.  Heck maybe that's what those stationary "fission batteries" are, the big ones being used to power streetlights and such.  No sign of the "replicators", but it's something.

Also radiation is very different in this setting than in reality.  It's one reason everything is nuclear-powered.  Heck, I don't think ghouls are a result of FEV...  Just magic radiation doing weird nonsense.  A lot of them were turned when the bombs dropped, long before the FEV started spreading.  AFAIK.

Not really. The FEV spread when a bomb directly hit the West Tek research facility (later known as The Glow). Although it's somewhat disputed whether ghouls are a result of plain 50s pop-scifi radiation or radiation mixed with FEV. The latter makes more sense (and is stated as canonical in the Fallout Bible), but the former is what the original creator envisioned.

Huh interesting, thanks!
I definitely misremembered the fortification level of some of those FO3 towns.  Some don't have the magic stop-anything rubble walls, and would be pretty vulnerable.

[forsaken1111]

All this talk about fallout and rebuilding... now I want a strategic-level game where you are rebuilding the wastes. Like Europa Universalis 4 engine but fallout setting

[Krevsin]

A fusion generator and some seeds doesn't let you build a big damn city though. That takes a ton of material, time, labor, and heavy construction equipment. More than could reasonably stored in a vault, in my opinion.

Dunno, a fusion generator is an immense source of power which you can use to power all sorts of machinery and lighting. Likewise, having seeds that are rad and everything-proof makes your farming very effective at producing food.

As for the manual labour, a 1000 work-ready people with effective leadership and who are well-supplied is pretty much a godsend if you're trying to set up a society from scratch. You could have a fully functioning and defensible settlement within a month. Provided you stay near your vault, that is.

Vault-tec experiments notwithstanding, vaults would pretty much foolproof a way of establishing a civilization after the end of the current one.

This seem's as good an explanation as any
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskScienceFiction/comments/1f965i/fallout_where_does_all_of_this_ammo_and_food_come/ca98oc2

These are good reasons, but my main problem is that all of these are assumptions rather than things actually presented to us in the game.

Like I said, this is a pet peeve of mine. I like the world to at least have the basics covered.

[Sergius]

All this talk about fallout and rebuilding... now I want a strategic-level game where you are rebuilding the wastes. Like Europa Universalis 4 engine but fallout setting

I wouldn't mind something slightly smaller scale (or at least more zoomed in) without going as far as an RTS. There are some games that seem to walk the line between those. Something like The Settlers maybe.

[forsaken1111]

Dunno, a fusion generator is an immense source of power which you can use to power all sorts of machinery and lighting.

I was going to comment on the possible generation capacity of a fusion generator which fits in a small suitcase but this is science fiction so it doesn't necessarily need to make sense.

I wouldn't mind something slightly smaller scale (or at least more zoomed in) without going as far as an RTS. There are some games that seem to walk the line between those. Something like The Settlers maybe.

Hm. I could see that working in some ways. Are you thinking more of a game like Children of the Nile where the focus is always on the city and you send expeditions 'off map' to accomplish objectives and sometimes deal with invaders?

[Tellemurius]

All this talk about fallout and rebuilding... now I want a strategic-level game where you are rebuilding the wastes. Like Europa Universalis 4 engine but fallout setting

I wouldn't mind something slightly smaller scale (or at least more zoomed in) without going as far as an RTS. There are some games that seem to walk the line between those. Something like The Settlers maybe.

Well theres Fallout Shelter to look forward in the future which is a weak mobile game but lets you run a vault. Other than that theres not alot of management games where you are stuck in some crater trying to rebuild whats left. Closest I can come up are either a colony management game or zombies.

[Sergius]

Closest I've found is this mod for some game called Darkest Hour:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYaBk7IAA1A

[Bremen]

IIRC there's a Fallout mod for a game called Dwarf Fortress, you may have heard of it