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[Moogie]

Man this thread moved fast since yesterday. I want to reply to a few things.

Firstly, the issue of NV being a "giant DLC". Let's face it; it basically is. There's some new engine features here and there, but New Vegas is mostly just an alternative to FO3. It's what FO3 could have been from the start. FO3 is the less intelligent, slightly illiterate, duller little sister to New Vegas. NV uses the same textures/artwork for the most part, but there's lots of new content too. Combat is the same, questing is the same, the wasteland is the same drab brown expanse of dust and dirt. 90% of New Vegas could have easily been implemented as a FO3 DLC; there's even some suspicion that they took some scripts from community mods and used it for some of their "new" features.

But hold up a second, because I'm glad they didn't do that. If you didn't put money down on FO3 yet, I would wholeheartedly recommend buying New Vegas instead and just forgetting FO3 even exists. Even if it re-uses all that stuff, it uses it in a good way. Obsidian paid careful attention to every detail. Sure it's still as crashy and buggy as FO3, but that's Bethesda's fault, and they're already churning out patches for it.

The new creatures are well textured and animated; in this way, they do stick out from the old Bethesda models, which I've always thought were arse-ugly. NPCs, however, actually sound like individuals this time around. It's hard to tell exactly how many voiceactors they used, but I haven't experienced "clone-syndrome" yet,  besides them not having tweaked or expanded on Bethesda's ridiculously limited facial customization limits. I guess everyone's just a cousin of everyone else this time, rather than a straight up clone...

Anyway. TL:DR; Yeah, New Vegas could have been created in the GECK for the most part, but that doesn't make it a bad game.


Now, someone asked about the combat? Yeah, it's kind of shooter-y in that department. Third and First person views in or out of combat. The VATS system lets you target specific body areas, to cripple limbs or focus on weakspots. You can go unarmed or with melee weapons if guns aren't your thing, and there's an assortment of explosives, grenades and mines you can use too.


Btw, I know a couple of people downloaded the ammo loot mod I posted, I'd love to hear about your experiences with this. I'm hoping it's subtle, but not too subtle that you never find anything. Personally I spent about half an hour last night rooting around in bins and boxes and didn't find anything. I may have to tweak the numbers a bit.

[Deon]

Actually I haven't seen the parts yet, but I was playing just a bit of time, so that's okay .

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

No offense but I know more about combat than you've told me without even having played the game.  Like the fact that you can only target the torso using VATS in melee for no reason other than that it would look funny and they couldn't be arsed to animate attacks on other parts.  And apparently hand grenades used in VATS act like explosive tipped bullets rather than grenades and explode on contact.  Or that VATS, while supposedly a rater sill attempt to give tribute to Fallout's called shots removed anything that made that system interesting like eye and groin shots (Because groin shots were too silly, but the entirety of megaton wasn't) and replaced it with right/left arm/leg, head, torso, weapon.

I was looking for some details they wouldn't share with the community because big companies either think their customers hate details, or they don't want them to know those details before they've already given away their money.

For instance, can headshots knock people out?

[Calhoun]

For instance, can headshots knock people out?

Not to nitpick, but usually when you shoot someone in the head, they don't ever get up. Bullets are dangerous like that.

Okay, here's the alpha of Freeside XP ("Freeside Expanded"). Just adds a Buck's Steak House interior (the door is on the place of a formerly boarded door, under the "Buck's Steak House" sign near the Strip entrance) with a merchant.

http://www.box.net/shared/7c06vu0d21

 For some reason followers refuse to leave the location, I probably didn't learn something important about XMarkers yet. So please playtest without followers, or tell them to stay outside.

Some thoughts:
"Have a look at my finest meats." Is some dynamite innuendo
Buck's Delicious Steaks have no Food value associated with them
I like that the refrigerators in the back have strange meat in them, interesting twist on Buck, who seems to be just a normal guy.
Lighting is pretty!
The absinthe bottles do NOT fit the shelf. It is impossible to move them, they are completely wedged in their, relocated 'em to the top shelf, or just trash them.
Bit of a mismatch between interior and exterior size, but not too noticeable.
My companion can enter and leave just fine, only she comes out of the gate to the other section of freeside, instead of the door to Bucks

[Leonon]

@Moogie
I havn't downloaded your mod but may I suggest that gun cabinets have pretty good chances of containing reloading supplies?

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

For instance, can headshots knock people out?

Not to nitpick, but usually when you shoot someone in the head, they don't ever get up. Bullets are dangerous like that.

"Usually when you shoot someone in the head"?  How often do you shoot people in the head?  Not everyone has action movie hero accuracy and can hit someone dead center in the brain stem with a hand gun from fifty feet away while running.

[x2yzh9]

First impressions? I don't like it. I'll play it for some time more and think about it then, I suppose it will grow on me, but it just seems... Rather dumb. I don't like it, but I'll play it some more to see, considering I spent 50 bux on it.

[Calhoun]

"Usually when you shoot someone in the head"?  How often do you shoot people in the head?  Not everyone has action movie hero accuracy and can hit someone dead center in the brain stem with a hand gun from fifty feet away while running.

headshots

You asked about headshots, I told you about headshots. And you don't have to hit someone dead center in the brain stem to kill them with a headshot, especially if you are using a large caliber round, or perhaps lasers or even plasma.

[debvon]

First impressions? I don't like it. I'll play it for some time more and think about it then, I suppose it will grow on me, but it just seems... Rather dumb. I don't like it, but I'll play it some more to see, considering I spent 50 bux on it.

It does start out rather slow just like Fallout 3 did (okay, so Fallout 3 started out extremely slow), but it will definitely pick up over time. The thing to remember is that side quests and exploration really pay off in this game, so if you're running to storyline objective X and you see something in the distance, do not ignore it. And get that explorer perk at level 20, it's worth it. Rushing through the "main quest chain" as quickly as possible is probably the worst way to experience the game.

I wasn't really impressed when I first started either, but the more I play it, the more satisfied I get.

 

For instance, can headshots knock people out?

Not to nitpick, but usually when you shoot someone in the head, they don't ever get up. Bullets are dangerous like that.

"Usually when you shoot someone in the head"?  How often do you shoot people in the head?  Not everyone has action movie hero accuracy and can hit someone dead center in the brain stem with a hand gun from fifty feet away while running.

I think you're taking this game a little too seriously.

[debvon]

Woops

[Moogie]

No offense but I know more about combat than you've told me without even having played the game.  Like the fact that you can only target the torso using VATS in melee for no reason other than that it would look funny and they couldn't be arsed to animate attacks on other parts.  And apparently hand grenades used in VATS act like explosive tipped bullets rather than grenades and explode on contact.  Or that VATS, while supposedly a rater sill attempt to give tribute to Fallout's called shots removed anything that made that system interesting like eye and groin shots (Because groin shots were too silly, but the entirety of megaton wasn't) and replaced it with right/left arm/leg, head, torso, weapon.

I was looking for some details they wouldn't share with the community because big companies either think their customers hate details, or they don't want them to know those details before they've already given away their money.

For instance, can headshots knock people out?

No, grenades don't explode on contact. Not sure where you would have read that, but they definitely act as you'd expect grenades to, e.g. a timed delay, and you can also 'cook' them.

The limitations of the VATS system is likely technical, because of Bethesda's engine, not because they thought any of it would be "silly". Might be moddable, but I never heard of a mod for that for FO3. I would have loved this to be more fully developed, but Oblivion was never designed with VATS in mind, and you know what Beth is like with re-using the same old tech...

Headshots can cripple yours/enemies' accuracy, if it doesn't outright kill you. People can be knocked out but that has something to do with the hidden Fatigue system and I don't know much about it. I think it mainly comes into play with melee weapons or unarmed combat.

As a side note, I don't mind if you'd rather read from sources of (possibly incorrect) information, but please don't scoff when someone who's actually played the game offers to answer your vague "So how's combat?" question, because I'm not a f-----g mindreader and did not know what details you were expecting.

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

"Usually when you shoot someone in the head"?  How often do you shoot people in the head?  Not everyone has action movie hero accuracy and can hit someone dead center in the brain stem with a hand gun from fifty feet away while running.

headshots

You asked about headshots, I told you about headshots. And you don't have to hit someone dead center in the brain stem to kill them with a headshot, especially if you are using a large caliber round, or perhaps lasers or even plasma.

First impressions? I don't like it. I'll play it for some time more and think about it then, I suppose it will grow on me, but it just seems... Rather dumb. I don't like it, but I'll play it some more to see, considering I spent 50 bux on it.

It does start out rather slow just like Fallout 3 did (okay, so Fallout 3 started out extremely slow), but it will definitely pick up over time. The thing to remember is that side quests and exploration really pay off in this game, so if you're running to storyline objective X and you see something in the distance, do not ignore it. And get that explorer perk at level 20, it's worth it. Rushing through the "main quest chain" as quickly as possible is probably the worst way to experience the game.

I wasn't really impressed when I first started either, but the more I play it, the more satisfied I get.

 

For instance, can headshots knock people out?

Not to nitpick, but usually when you shoot someone in the head, they don't ever get up. Bullets are dangerous like that.

"Usually when you shoot someone in the head"?  How often do you shoot people in the head?  Not everyone has action movie hero accuracy and can hit someone dead center in the brain stem with a hand gun from fifty feet away while running.

I think you're taking this game a little too seriously.

No I'm just taking it as a Fallout game.  In Fallout 1 and 2 hitting someone in the head had a chance to knock them unconscious. 

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue though.  That in reality the head is some sort of magic object that when it comes into contact with a bullet regardless of trajectory causes it's owner instant death?

No offense but I know more about combat than you've told me without even having played the game.  Like the fact that you can only target the torso using VATS in melee for no reason other than that it would look funny and they couldn't be arsed to animate attacks on other parts.  And apparently hand grenades used in VATS act like explosive tipped bullets rather than grenades and explode on contact.  Or that VATS, while supposedly a rater sill attempt to give tribute to Fallout's called shots removed anything that made that system interesting like eye and groin shots (Because groin shots were too silly, but the entirety of megaton wasn't) and replaced it with right/left arm/leg, head, torso, weapon.

I was looking for some details they wouldn't share with the community because big companies either think their customers hate details, or they don't want them to know those details before they've already given away their money.

For instance, can headshots knock people out?

No, grenades don't explode on contact. Not sure where you would have read that, but they definitely act as you'd expect grenades to, e.g. a timed delay, and you can also 'cook' them.

The limitations of the VATS system is likely technical, because of Bethesda's engine, not because they thought any of it would be "silly". Might be moddable, but I never heard of a mod for that for FO3. I would have loved this to be more fully developed, but Oblivion was never designed with VATS in mind, and you know what Beth is like with re-using the same old tech...

Headshots can cripple yours/enemies' accuracy, if it doesn't outright kill you. People can be knocked out but that has something to do with the hidden Fatigue system and I don't know much about it. I think it mainly comes into play with melee weapons or unarmed combat.

As a side note, I don't mind if you'd rather read from sources of (possibly incorrect) information, but please don't scoff when someone who's actually played the game offers to answer your vague "So how's combat?" question, because I'm not a f-----g mindreader and did not know what details you were expecting.

Ok, maybe that was a little snippy the way I said that.  Sorry.  You didn't deserve that.

If getting knocked unconscious is anything like Oblivion what it means is just that if a character's constantly recharging fatigue stat ever gets to zero said character will ragoll like a corpse but be unlootable for usually about 1 second before standing up again as they regain 1 point of fatigue.  So it's not so much getting knocked out as it is just a minor consequence for not watching your fatigue bar... which you apparently can't even do in FO3/NV if it's now invisible.

Fatigue itself is something left over from the elder scrolls series game mechanics so they likely just left it in due to laziness.

Also, the thing about not being able to target parts in VATS melee being because it would look silly is directly from the mouth of a dev.  I'll try to find the interview for you.

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

Well I think I found it... And the site it was on is offline, but anyway, yeah, that was the reasoning behind it.  They didn't want to design miss animations so you always hit.  They didn't want to let you always hit the head since they had made you always hit so they made it impossible to target.

It was probably the George W. Bush of Game development who said it, Todd Howard.

[Grakelin]

Ioric, my current character in Fallout 1 is able to shoot his enemies in the eyes from up to 10 yards away with 90% accuracy. And they usually don't even go down in the first hit because he's using a 10mm pistol, so the bullets don't hit as hard or something. My current New Vegas character, by contract, is only able to hit enemies with VATS at all at extremely close range, and I usually have to rely on my own aim to even hope to get a hit.

So yeah, I think you're being too nitpicky.

[Leonon]

Maybe you should stop picking fights with Superman?