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[Jackrabbit]

Next time, if you want to get rid of all your ammunition, I'd suggest dropping it.

[Dakorma]

That's not quite as bad ass as firing it into the wall.

[Jackrabbit]

For an hour? That's kind of absurd to even contemplate. It's like staring at a wall for an hour except you're applying pressure with one finger and there's noise that you stop listening to 30 clips in.

[Ninteen45]

Seriously, I don't see how "the AI cheats" translates into "you mean the game is really good you hypocrite!"

Actually, it's "The AI cheats because the game has the audacity to *GASP* have enemies who run away from bullets and avoid getting shot!" The VATS system calculates targets who are still. Running away isn't calculated in the percentages.

Also:

His argument for the Stimpaks was "THEY KEPT IT THE SAME IT'S RUINED FOREVER"
His argument for repairing weapons "THEY ADDED A REALISTIC VALUE IT'S RUINED FOREVER"
And finally,

Gameplay I've already covered above. The shooting mechanics are ultimately ruined by the abundance of healing items and ammo, auto aim and the redonkulous cone of fire. And the near weightlessness of one and the actual weightlessness of the other.

Let's look at this here first. In Fallout (I think, only saw the let's play of both a few hours ago) one of the NPC's made bullets by making gunpowder. Enclave also have mini factories. Oh, and this was commie hysteria america as well! I mean, because everyone is paranoid and gun toting doesn't mean there were few guns! Anyway, the weightlessness I agree with, partially because of the fact there was a little too much empasis on the FPS part of the game. (Lots of ammo, lots of monsters...) Also, Cone of fire increased with the damage to the weapon, I think.

Story, leeched almost directly from fallout 1 and 2. Completely nonsensical when looked at with the others of the series.

You say that like it's a bad thing. I thought the plot was nice the first time I got the whole story.

Quests, TWSG, ultimately, was stupid, but the concept was not, I would like to see more game implementing something like it. Just needs a little work on the delivery. Arefu was stupid, and a pain in the ass. Tenpenny Tower, the ghouls slaughtering the admitedly asshole-ish residents was the... good path? Fetch quests abound, nuka cola challenge, et al. Power of the atom was poorly conceived, and retarded.

The game has a rather grey and grey morality streak here. Look at the Pitt's plot, for one. Power of the Atom was a pretty original quest, even if it was more of a demo of what the game can do.

UI is complete fail on the PC.

... One second.

Graphics don't matter.
...
UI is complete fail on the PC.

You are joking, right? "Graphics don't matter, unless I say they do."

Writing complete fail on so many levels, it makes me angry that this game was praised for good writing. "You seen my dad, older, brown haired guy?" You mean, like, the 20 in megaton alone? "I fight the good fight with my voice kid, you better believe it!" "Intelligence: Ah, so you fight the good fight with your voice." "That's right kid you're just a chip off the old block aren't you." So my dad is functionally retarded, that would explain why he left me in a vault with a murderous megalomaniac without telling me he was leaving.

Good job, you rewrote a couple of lines of the game to fit your agenda. *CLAP* *CLAP*

Sound doesn't matter.

Music was good, but ultimately the radio broke the atmosphere. In all but a select few places.

Yeah, I'm gonna leave that there, because nothing I say could counter an argument that defeats itself.

There are plenty of radio towers, and I'm unsure a nuke on earth could remove a satillite in space.

Also, he's the one that was flaming, I have yet to toss out an insult.

Does insulting my intelligence count? I say it does.

[Sir Pseudonymous]

in stalker at least you remain semi effective and semi-straight firing in all but the lowest of durability.

No, they don't. Most guns can't shoot straight even at full durability, and the ones that can go to shit after a few dozen shots. Although, it seems like some degrade differently depending on how you're firing it: the TRS 301 would appear to degrade significantly worse when fired on full auto, compared to a comparable number of shots in semi-auto, and once it hits... what? 95%? It starts jamming constantly, and can't be aimed worth shit.

I mean I played VtM for TEN YEARS half of which I ST/DM'd, I know Vampires.

This is supposed to be a positive trait?

I've been playing Vidyo games for TWENTY YEARS, I know video games. I can fairly cognizantly decide what is good and bad about a video game.

omg so 1337 u guis! clarly hi nos best!

There's just about nothing that is good about fallout 3, that is not derived from the previous installments and even those moments are toned down in comparison. Here I'm going to go through the thing piece by piece and give you a quick break down.

I think Vampire the Masquerade is a pretty cool guy, eh knows better than us, gives quick breakdowns, and doesn't afraid of anything.

Atmosphere, decent but ultimately ruined by the fact that you can't walk 30 feet without getting attacked by something.

Due to hardware constraints and gameplay considerations, the map size is quite smaller than would be realistic. Hence greater density of hostiles.

Gameplay I've already covered above. The shooting mechanics are ultimately ruined by the abundance of healing items and ammo, auto aim and the redonkulous cone of fire. And the near weightlessness of one and the actual weightlessness of the other.

By the mid-end game, people who have the instinct to dig around in everything have a massive surplus of ammo and health, as well as a couple dozen suits of power armor stuffed in 2'x1'x5' closet, next to a few hundred assault rifles. In the early game, however, you barely have enough to scrape by, and by the time you have enough, it's more about exploring and just dicking around than anything else.

When I completed the game the first time I decided to empty all my guns of ammo and melee the final fights. It took me 1 hour of just firing into a wall to give up on emptying my 556 ammo. And that was the first one I decided to empty.

Why didn't you just drop them?

I had over 4000 rounds of 556. To give you an idea of the space that would take up. A 556 round takes up about 2.2 inches in length. So (2.2*4000)\12=733 feet you know what else is that tall, about 3/4 the Empire State Building. I had enough bullets to climb 3/4 the Empire State building. Now for stimpaks so guesstimating that stimpaks are around 4.3 inches long lets do that calculation again, I had around 900 with my character, and around 2500 stocked up in megaton. so 4.3*(900+2500)\12=1218 feet that's the whole empire state building-40ft.

So, you lay them out along their longest dimension in a neat little line, and they come out to be a few hundred feet? The weightlessness is an issue that makes carrying it all around unrealistic, but I had comparable ammo caches in cases in STALKER (both SoC and CS), even if I couldn't carry it all with me.

Graphics don't matter.

It's an FPS. It benefits from not looking like ass, and even more from running efficiently despite that. Fallout 3 managed to look great, and do it in an efficient manner, unlike some games *coughdeadspacecoughcough*.

Story, leeched almost directly from fallout 1 and 2. Completely nonsensical when looked at with the others of the series.

The Fallout setting on its own is pretty fucking nonsensical.

Just needs a little work on the delivery. Arefu was stupid, and a pain in the ass.

Agreed there.

Tenpenny Tower, the ghouls slaughtering the admitedly asshole-ish residents was the... good path?

I think it was meant to be a funny little kick in the teeth for someone trying to play a good character. These days, I just kill them all myself.

Fetch quests abound, nuka cola challenge, et al.

I ignored those, personally.

Power of the atom was poorly conceived, and retarded.

Yeah.

UI is complete fail on the PC.

It wasn't horrible, just overly simple to accommodate how horrible the controls of consoles are, and not redesigned solely for the benefit of *real* systems... >:/

Writing complete fail on so many levels, it makes me angry that this game was praised for good writing. "You seen my dad, older, brown haired guy?" You mean, like, the 20 in megaton alone? "I fight the good fight with my voice kid, you better believe it!" "Intelligence: Ah, so you fight the good fight with your voice." "That's right kid you're just a chip off the old block aren't you." So my dad is functionally retarded, that would explain why he left me in a vault with a murderous megalomaniac without telling me he was leaving.

As game writing goes, it was certainly in the top tier. Which is to say, game writing is universally pretty shitty, so F3's "not horrible" beats most.

VO is immediately redeemed by Liam Neeson... Only to fail once he's dead. Budumtish

Eh, the voices were actually competently done for F3, unlike Oblivion.

Sound doesn't matter.

Huh? Sound is important, and F3 did it competently, at least.

Music was good, but ultimately the radio broke the atmosphere. In all but a select few places.

That's why you can turn it off. It's fun to listen to for a while, and then it gets annoying and distracting, so *click*.

[Dakorma]

For an hour? That's kind of absurd to even contemplate. It's like staring at a wall for an hour except you're applying pressure with one finger and there's noise that you stop listening to 30 clips in.

Ok, I also wanted to honestly see how long it would take. Like I said I gave up after an hour. I was also watching TV at the time. A documentary on Rommel and Patin, I think.

Now onto 1995 going completely randomly through your points.

I'm not talking graphically for the UI, I'm talking functionally, it was made for consoles and not adapted at all for the PC beyond the 10 hotkeys. It's made for large-screen low-resolution style TVs. It doesn't look "bad" it is a nightmare to navigate on a large resolution monitor.

And no I'm not saying stimpaks are ruin forever because they are the same I'm saying they are ruined forever because they made them over abundant and didn't put a limit on them.

WHERE THE FUCK IS THE LOGICAL CONSEQUENCE OF NUKING A FUCKING CITY! You only get fucking told off by the majority of the NPC's. Thew main quest in megaton was TWSG and they fucking made moira survive being at the EPICENTER OF A NUCLEAR BOMB? WTF.

Sniper rifle has a larger cone of fire than a fucking hunting rifle. Explain that away. I can snipe better with a hunting rifle than a rifle explicitly named "sniper Rifle." Add in that the hunting rifle uses the infinitely more common 32mm round and you've just invalidated the entire purpose of a gun. And of course it increase I can agree with that, but disrepair should also bring things like shuddering, more recoil/any recoil, and jamming.

Not really let me find the screenshots of those lines in question from an LP on the codex.
As you can it's actually slightly worse. The line to find your father is actually quite a bit more vague. The line at three dog's actually make's reference to your smart making power.

Not saying it broke IMMERSION, I'm saying the music itself broke the atmosphere. Moment's that could have actually been quite good such as walking through certain areas, like the kids room at Paradise Falls could have been much better with a more spartan music choice. Something like low tempo non electronic ambient industrial. Basically Existence2.0. Which is a mod, if you have a PC, get it now!

How am I insulting your intelligence, sir or madam?

As to the sir psuedowhatever, once again completely randomly.

Not really from what I played of STALKER. Most guns fired relatively straight and you weren't able to spray and pray like FO.

I also played Shadowrun at the same time. I had a DnD group for 5 of those years, I played Unknown Armies for 3, I played some random one shots in some other systems. Oh and Exalted for 4 years.

Gonna ignore the next points as they are blatant attempts to bait me.

Not really an excuse, as it still breaks the bleakness of the setting.

Mid game takes what 3 hours to get to?

I wanted to see how long it would take.

Play thief one or two, and tell me it's not more atmospheric. Hell tell me SS2 isn't more atmospheric. I had FAR more fun and immersion in those than I had in FO3. Despite the fact that they comparably look like shit.

Indeed but not quite to the level of FO3 where the main villain is out right necromancy of an old villain.

Next few points are you agreeing so those are ignored.

Sound is relatively bland, and a bit more effort could have been put into it.

Music in the background with the radio off is generic "AWESOME" orchestral music. Compare it to this http://www.nma-fallout.com/article.php?id=54768 .

[Sir Pseudonymous]

Not really from what I played of STALKER. Most guns fired relatively straight and you weren't able to spray and pray like FO.

With the exception of the nato guns and the dragunov, combat in STALKER was: "aim at head, fire burst, repeat several times until a bullet actually hits", or, against mutants: "aim at face, empty clip, pray you can reload and shoot some more before it reaches you".

I also played Shadowrun at the same time. I had a DnD group for 5 of those years, I played Unknown Armies for 3, I played some random one shots in some other systems. Oh and Exalted for 4 years.

And?

Gonna ignore the next points as they are blatant attempts to bait me.

Yes, but they're all those lines deserved.

Not really an excuse, as it still breaks the bleakness of the setting.

Eh, wandering around an empty waste might be bleak, but it's not a fun game.

Mid game takes what 3 hours to get to?

Not if you're taking the time to loot all the little caches...

I wanted to see how long it would take.

:|

Play thief one or two, and tell me it's not more atmospheric. Hell tell me SS2 isn't more atmospheric. I had FAR more fun and immersion in those than I had in FO3. Despite the fact that they comparably look like shit.

Eh, I've heard Bioshock described as the spiritual successor to System Shock, and it's a solidly mediocre piece of junk.

Sound is relatively bland, and a bit more effort could have been put into it.

Yeah, sound's generally overlooked and underfunded, but F3's doesn't stand out as bad, so it was handled competently, at least.

Music in the background with the radio off is generic "AWESOME" orchestral music. Compare it to this http://www.nma-fallout.com/article.php?id=54768 .

Never noticed it, maybe I screwed around with the audio settings or something.

[buckets]

New Vegas looks realy awesome, I realy like the first four, although I haven't played the first one much.

It's looks like the new crew they have working on it are gonna come out with something amazing, I hear there's supposed to be some of the original team that worked on the first two.

[Dakorma]

Not really from what I played of STALKER. Most guns fired relatively straight and you weren't able to spray and pray like FO.

With the exception of the nato guns and the dragunov, combat in STALKER was: "aim at head, fire burst, repeat several times until a bullet actually hits", or, against mutants: "aim at face, empty clip, pray you can reload and shoot some more before it reaches you".

I also played Shadowrun at the same time. I had a DnD group for 5 of those years, I played Unknown Armies for 3, I played some random one shots in some other systems. Oh and Exalted for 4 years.

And?

Gonna ignore the next points as they are blatant attempts to bait me.

Yes, but they're all those lines deserved.

Not really an excuse, as it still breaks the bleakness of the setting.

Eh, wandering around an empty waste might be bleak, but it's not a fun game.

Mid game takes what 3 hours to get to?

Not if you're taking the time to loot all the little caches...

I wanted to see how long it would take.

:|

Play thief one or two, and tell me it's not more atmospheric. Hell tell me SS2 isn't more atmospheric. I had FAR more fun and immersion in those than I had in FO3. Despite the fact that they comparably look like shit.

Eh, I've heard Bioshock described as the spiritual successor to System Shock, and it's a solidly mediocre piece of junk.

Sound is relatively bland, and a bit more effort could have been put into it.

Yeah, sound's generally overlooked and underfunded, but F3's doesn't stand out as bad, so it was handled competently, at least.

Music in the background with the radio off is generic "AWESOME" orchestral music. Compare it to this http://www.nma-fallout.com/article.php?id=54768 .

Never noticed it, maybe I screwed around with the audio settings or something.

For me it was more of fire a burst at the torso, "duck" behind cover, locate enemy, fire burst at torso. Or in the case of shot guns, run up fire 2 shots at torso, ok dead, next enemy. I try'd not to use the shot gun because it seemed a bit hax. I'm not saying stalker was a perfect model, I'm saying I would enjoy it more than Fallout 3.

So you were insulting my playing PnP RPG's then, in which case I would question your habits beyond video games just after and during high-school. I'm not a partier and I don't tend to socialize well with non-nerds/geeks. I have an exaggerated way of speaking that is off-putting to allot of people. PnP gave me socialization in the times that multiplayer gaming was nearly nonexistent beyond consoles.

Fine I shall elaborate upon my claims, I got into video gaming near the release of the SSI gold box games and DOOOOOMMM, I had previously or rather my parents owned a Magnavox Odyssey as a VERY young child which like coloured me towards gaming. I have played around 200 games just for PC. I have gone through PC's golden age. Where there were games were designed soley for PC by PC gamers themselves. I personally long for the days of Deus Ex and the like.

The second quote is nearly random and I'm still not going to answer.

Tell that to daggerfall a game that required fast travel but was fun enough to explore, just to set out randomly in a direction and see what you come across. Or The Path a game PURELY about the exploration of a small area. The point is it has the potential to completely suck you into it it's just ruined by the fact that you hear "Thwipt" and get hit by omething every 3 mins. You can also balance it so that when you get into combat it becomes even more bleak by making encounter difficulty actually hard.

SS2 is nothing like Bioshock, the aesthetics are much different, the gameplay is both more and less frantic, you could permanently die, you didn't automagically re-spawn at the nearest but rather had to activate a re-spawn terminal somewhere on a level. Even then it came at a cost. They basically chose to use the shock name in an attempt to bring up the memories that were good about that game in us old fogies.

Indeed I quite agree.

There is indeed a background track along with the radio.

@buckets: Yep Feargus Ulqhart(Now THERE'S a name for a dwarf) worked on Fallout 2. And MCA worked on Planescape Torment which is regarded as one of the best stories in an RPG or even a game EVER and Fallout 2.

[Jackrabbit]

Okay, seriously. Playing a lot of games does not make you more or less qualified to comment on other games than anyone else on the internet. I'm not sure why you're bringing it up. You're impressing no one and annoying some.

[Sir Pseudonymous]

Okay, seriously. Playing a lot of games does not make you more or less qualified to comment on other games than anyone else on the internet. I'm not sure why you're bringing it up. You're impressing no one and annoying some.

This.


I actually enjoyed STALKER quite a bit, although the buggy faction warfare made me give up on CS. The guns are probably roughly realistic in their inaccuracy, and unrealistic in their low-damage. Most are still ungodly bitches to use, though... aside from the TRS 301 and dragunov. <3

I play(ed) pnp games too, albeit over IRC due to not knowing anyone that played back in highschool. Haven't played for a year or so, although I'm trying to convince some people I know to play a Dark Heresy campaign. Or "Kobolds Ate My Baby", with an appropriate amount of beer to go along with it.
Playing PnP games is, however, wholly irrelevant to the topic at hand. Speaking as though playing them gives you some authority to speak from deserves only mockery.

[Shadowgandor]

Fine I shall elaborate upon my claims, I got into video gaming near the release of the SSI gold box games and DOOOOOMMM, I had previously or rather my parents owned a Magnavox Odyssey as a VERY young child which like coloured me towards gaming. I have played around 200 games just for PC. I have gone through PC's golden age. Where there were games were designed soley for PC by PC gamers themselves. I personally long for the days of Deus Ex and the like.

I own about 60 games on steam itself, about 10 games on impulse, 20 games on gamersgate and again about 10 games on GOG. That's 100 games which I gathered in about a year and a half. I still have about 12 years in which I played video games, I used to torrent them 24/7 so...I think I'll top your 200 games just for pc.
 Don't get me started about consoles, my aunt and uncle gave us (Me and my sister) a huge box full of SNES games. In the end, I had 80+ snes games. I owned an N64 with about 5 () games, a cracked Xbox with about 60 pirated games (Bad, I know, hence the absurd amount of buying in a year and a half, I basically said to myself: 'I will not pirate games anymore, unless it is impossible to find them legally.') and an X360 with about 15 (including rented) games.

I like Fallout 3 and have played more games then you, so I'm right. If people disagree with me, I'll bring up some more personal gaming history.

/nonsensical

[dogstile]

Hey look, I have 200 games in my ROOM alone *stroking motion* am i doing it right.

Why are we even talking about fallout 3, we're meant to be talking about new vagas for crying out loud.

Dak, you didn't like the game, you've said that, shut up now.

Everyone else, you can't prove him wrong on his opinion, shut up now.

So I heard new vagas has customisable weapons? How about that eh?

[Jackrabbit]

I look forward to sticking a bayonet and scope on my Desert Eagle just for the hell of it.

Just for the hell of it.

Actually, more games need to give you the option of adding a bayonet to your gun.

[Acanthus117]

I look forward to turning the basic pistol into A KILLING MACHEEN OF AWESOMMM