Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Dakorma]

Here are some countries using AK/47s, Bulgaria, GDR(defunct country but still listed), Iran, North Korea, Poland, India, Pakistan, Egypt and Greece. Most are/were fairly wealthy nations, they use them not because they are cheap, and they are, but because they are reliable pieces of weapon.

Bulgaria, North Korea, Greece and Pakistan are quite poor. They are not poor like Ethiopia (who make their own AK-47s) or Tanzania, but people there don't earn 10% of what people in USA do. The rest on your list are no picnic either.
DDR is not real. hasn't been for 20 years now. I'm sure there are various militias and whatnot that use them in what used to be DDR, but Bundeswehr doesn't use it.

And can last DECADES of combat.

I'm sure you meant decades of training. AKs are not magical, They are subject to wear and tear (well... wear) just like any other rifle. They might last a bit longer without service, but in active combat you can expect to need spare parts before the year is out (and probably before than, if you're using an Ethiopian knock-off).

Indeed I did, minor flub I apologize. Noticed you didn't mention Pakistan whom also make their own AK/47s which they reverse engineered themselves instead decided to pick on Ethiopia. GDR are still valid, and god has it really been 20 years now, I was just a kid looking at joining the army then. They would probably still be using AKs if they were still around. You can also make the spare parts yourself if need be. To see how relatively simple the parts of the mechanism are take a look at this, http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=04b_1231535877. Frame rate is choppy but you can get the jist of it. Sure you'd probably be better off with the .32 if you needed to repair something. But is still simpler than the AR-15 that the US uses, which is still simple as all hell. Gun's are easy to make and repair with the proper knowledge and tools.

As to jackrabbit indeed.

And to Sir really long complex word, That's only in fallout 3, which was crap.

[Jackrabbit]

Except most guns wear down to uselessness after firing a single clip...

Hey, it has been 200 years. Things can only be weatherproofed so far.

No, but really, the obvious answer is - it's a game and it's a shitty feature. Other than that I enjoyed Fallout 3, though.

[Sir Pseudonymous]

Except most guns wear down to uselessness after firing a single clip...

Hey, it has been 200 years. Things can only be weatherproofed so far.

:3

[Jackrabbit]

Smileys give me no indication on your stance.

Do you agree, not agree, what?

[a1s]

Noticed you didn't mention Pakistan whom also make their own AK/47s which they reverse engineered themselves instead decided to pick on Ethiopia.

Actually many countries make a variant of the AK. The most famous would be Galil (Israel) and Type-56 (China). Or Russia for that matter (AK-74/AK-107 and many other AKs).

You can also make the spare parts yourself if need be. Sure you'd probably be better off with the .32 if you needed to repair something. But is still simpler than the AR-15 that the US uses, which is still simple as all hell.

That's the thing- you don't have to. Not in any professional western army. You need to take it apart, clean it, oil it, put it back the way it was. Repair will be done by other, qualified, people, probably a good deal away from the front line. If ,on the other hand, you are a Pakistani warlord, it might make sense for you to have low grade, but easy to maintain equipment (the passing of a weapon from military to paramilitary use (or from rich militaries to poor ones) is how you know it has become more outdated)

[Dakorma]

Noticed you didn't mention Pakistan whom also make their own AK/47s which they reverse engineered themselves instead decided to pick on Ethiopia.

Actually many countries make a variant of the AK. The most famous would be Galil (Israel) and Type-56 (China). Or Russia for that matter (AK-74/AK-107 and many other AKs).

You can also make the spare parts yourself if need be. Sure you'd probably be better off with the .32 if you needed to repair something. But is still simpler than the AR-15 that the US uses, which is still simple as all hell.

That's the thing- you don't have to. Not in any professional western army. You need to take it apart, clean it, oil it, put it back the way it was. Repair will be done by other, qualified, people, probably a good deal away from the front line. If ,on the other hand, you are a Pakistani warlord, it might make sense for you to have low grade, but easy to maintain equipment (the passing of a weapon from military to paramilitary use (or from rich militaries to poor ones) is how you know it has become more outdated)

But we're talking about it in reference to Fallout, not in reference to the real world. In Fallout, you wouldn't have the skilled labor to repair it for you, or the skilled labor would be a wastelander just like you. Would you trust Moira with your guns? I'm saying that the AK would have survived for that primary reason. No skilled labor exists, so you have to have easy to maintain, repair and rebuild guns, or cheap VERY easily homemade things like muskets. Hell why do you think the US hasn't fully replaced the AR-15, for those exact reasons. It's easy to maintain, repair and rebuild. They are simple enough and good enough, that the trade offs for "better" ones are simply too much.

[a1s]

But we're talking about it in reference to Fallout, not in reference to the real world.

I'm kind of talking in reference to the year 2077 (fallout being in alternative history and all). My point is that if the nuclear war happened today you would not see anyone make Winchester model 1873s, even if it can be made by schoolkids with a few years of shop class and it would likely be a more durable (if less accurate) rifle then the original was in XIX century. It's equally absurd to expect people from after 2077 to make the 130 year old AK-47s (I might be wrong about wichesters, but the absurdity is equal whether both are absurd or none).

[Grakelin]

It's been 70 years and we're still using it.

[Josephus]

I just read the OP, so this probably has no bearing whatsoever on the current discussion, but:

Why is having M-16s in the game a good thing? It's a shitty gun. In a post-apocalyptic world, you'd think that low-maintenance weapons would be important.

[Sir Pseudonymous]

Noticed you didn't mention Pakistan whom also make their own AK/47s which they reverse engineered themselves instead decided to pick on Ethiopia.

Actually many countries make a variant of the AK. The most famous would be Galil (Israel) and Type-56 (China). Or Russia for that matter (AK-74/AK-107 and many other AKs).

You can also make the spare parts yourself if need be. Sure you'd probably be better off with the .32 if you needed to repair something. But is still simpler than the AR-15 that the US uses, which is still simple as all hell.

That's the thing- you don't have to. Not in any professional western army. You need to take it apart, clean it, oil it, put it back the way it was. Repair will be done by other, qualified, people, probably a good deal away from the front line. If ,on the other hand, you are a Pakistani warlord, it might make sense for you to have low grade, but easy to maintain equipment (the passing of a weapon from military to paramilitary use (or from rich militaries to poor ones) is how you know it has become more outdated)

But we're talking about it in reference to Fallout, not in reference to the real world. In Fallout, you wouldn't have the skilled labor to repair it for you, or the skilled labor would be a wastelander just like you. Would you trust Moira with your guns? I'm saying that the AK would have survived for that primary reason. No skilled labor exists, so you have to have easy to maintain, repair and rebuild guns, or cheap VERY easily homemade things like muskets. Hell why do you think the US hasn't fully replaced the AR-15, for those exact reasons. It's easy to maintain, repair and rebuild. They are simple enough and good enough, that the trade offs for "better" ones are simply too much.

Except, in order for there to be a large number of AK-47s in the US, where Fallout takes place, they would have had to be there before the war, after which the rest of the world ceased to exist as far as the Fallout lore is concerned, so any caches outside its borders become irrelevant. There are, however, a wealth of chinese rifles ultimately derived from and modeled after the AK-47, smuggled to black ops sleeper cells operating in/chinese sympathizers living in the US, which are presumably just as durable and easy to maintain, if not more so, as well as much higher quality.

I just read the OP, so this probably has no bearing whatsoever on the current discussion, but:

Why is having M-16s in the game a good thing? It's a shitty gun. In a post-apocalyptic world, you'd think that low-maintenance weapons would be important.

Current discussion is an extension of that. I believe we're all in agreement that M-16s are too fragile and unreliable to survive 200 years of abuse in an irradiated wasteland. Now it's about whether or not AK-47s should be present... :/

Smileys give me no indication on your stance.

Do you agree, not agree, what?

It was a hyperbolic joke about things being built to last, when weapons become useless with only minimal use. The repair system as a whole really was horribly implemented, compared to something like STALKER's.

[Josephus]

AK-47, maybe not, but the Chinese Type-56 would make perfect sense. The world went on outside the vaults, so the means of manufacture could have been preserved in some way.

[Jackrabbit]

The repair system was really crappy. It was especially jarring when I could go outside, pick up a steak dinner off the ground and eat it with only a minor radiation gain as a penalty, 200 years after it was created.

[dogstile]

If we go by the idea that an AK 47 can't survive all those years outside, then question.

How can any other gun?

[Josephus]

If we go by the idea that an AK 47 can't survive all those years outside, then question.

How can any other gun?

Radiation. Obviously.

[Jackrabbit]

Like I said, in the Fallout universe, everything is built to last for ever. It's a side effect of living in a world constantly dominated by the threat of nuclear war. Things need to last, because people fully intend to survive if the bombs fall.

Unfortunately, mere mortals couldn't plan for a bunch of omnipotent people coming in and adding weapon degradation to their game universe.