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Author Topic: Fallout: New Vegas  (Read 206500 times)

Sergius

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Re: Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #1680 on: June 22, 2015, 03:16:33 pm »

Keep mind that this "100 years" some people think is sufficient to rebuild civilization, that is only like, max, 3 generations. How much can you get done in 3 generations of Banished? Because that is generally the level of technology most people have to work with.

Some people, like Vault City or New Vegas, had surviving technology to give them a kickstart

It's 200 years since the War. 100-ish since the first game, where people in the west coast were already at DC current development levels. And by development I mean making a tiny town out of scrap metal sheets or squatting in a ship.

EDIT: Also, Shady Sands was a lovely town that got founded a mere 65 years after the apocalypse.

EDIT2: Ah, well, they did have a GECK for that, but they're not the only town around.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2015, 03:23:35 pm by Sergius »
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Neonivek

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Re: Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #1681 on: June 22, 2015, 03:56:14 pm »

I am sure the toxic soil is perfect for growing large fruitful farms necessary for large populated cities.

New Vegas for example survives purely on nonsense for nourishment (actually I have no idea what the people of New Vegas eat... there aren't any real functional farms... for the longest time I thought there was some sort of food generator made by Mr. House)
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Rakonas

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Re: Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #1682 on: June 22, 2015, 04:00:44 pm »

If Caesar's Legion is any indication, the Midwest is low-tech tribal.  Less high-tech scrounging from cities, less radiation, probably less mutants to fight.  Makes sense that they would go agrarian and primitive like they did.  I don't see how the East is supposed to develop some sort of advanced culture from those tribals coming over the mountains.  Particularly since those tribals would die fast in the highly radiated, mutant-strewn Capital Hellhole.

This doesn't mean anything. Even humans long before civilization had long-distance trade. It makes little sense to say that word and ideas wouldn't spread across the country along with trade. Pittsburgh is pretty far from DC, and then Pittsburgh is a similar distance from Chicago, and then so on across the country. There are long distance radios, local traders/merchants, and wealthy individuals. The east coast somehow stuck living off of scavenged junk food is pretty ridiculous. People have no reason to stay in DC if there's literally no plants and no trade. Either the place should have some form of agriculture keeping people there or there's trade (like the travelling in dlcs)
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Rolan7

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Re: Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #1683 on: June 22, 2015, 04:23:49 pm »

They have vaults and ruined buildings full of food and technology.  All they lack is agriculture, which they don't have any need or possibility to develop.  They have no reason to trek west, the direction the FEV mutants came from, just to develop low-tech agriculture.

Sure, maybe tribals came over the mountains.  They wouldn't have anything to share!  The Capital Wasteland survivors are already experts at surviving in their habitat.

"Hrr, maybe put this seed in ground?"
"No tribal we tried that, the water is literally poison.  Now get the hell into our fortified walls and have some snack cakes, we have thousands."

"Hi, we're the Brotherhood of Steel!  Have our technology!"
"This helps but we still can't actually *grow* anything.  Though we'll start researching it anyway, because we're living pretty well off all these caches.  Maybe in a decade and with a GECK..."

"Hi, we're like the earlier FEV mutants except we're giant humanoids with rudimentary intelligence.  Hurr."
"Well, crap.  Good thing we have walls and high tech weaponry to survive, for now, particularly with the Brotherhood's help."

Does it actually say anywhere there's nothing between the East and West coast worthy of note? Cause New Vegas kinda contradicts that. There's loads of tribes and stuff in the nevada desert, to the east of like a dozen cities from Fallout 1 and 2. And you'd think the East Coast would be the less barren coast.
The tribes of Caesar's Legion (which hardly count as Midwest) were isolated, agrarian tribes.  Until an educated young man from the coast came through and reforged them into a mockery of the Roman Empire.

And the East Coast has a lot more buildings and resources...  It was just bombed a lot more, because it had more buildings and people.  Now it still has the resources and some of the buildings, but most of the people were successfully killed by the bombs.  As intended.

As for animals, well, anything that isn't human. Molerats, deathclaws, radants, radscorpions, brahmin, those anthropomorphic mudcrabs. They have to eat something that isn't just meat. Else they'd have died out by then. And considering how big they are, they must find a lot of it.

There's apparently some sickly grass, and occasional bushes.  Fortunately, in this setting radiation does some amazing things.  Ghouls live off of it, FEV mutants (animals and human) are immune to it and might live off it too (particularly the screwy east coast versions, where the FEV is weird).  All it really takes is one radiovore near the bottom of the food chain, like radscorpions.  Or even Brahmin.
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Tellemurius

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Re: Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #1684 on: June 22, 2015, 05:12:07 pm »

I am sure the toxic soil is perfect for growing large fruitful farms necessary for large populated cities.

New Vegas for example survives purely on nonsense for nourishment (actually I have no idea what the people of New Vegas eat... there aren't any real functional farms... for the longest time I thought there was some sort of food generator made by Mr. House)
I think you missed it cause the NCR setup farms outside of New Vegas, you find them when walking through. They have a complete irrigation system and everything. Think there was a sub quest where you actually had to spike the irrigation to kill the crops.

Neonivek

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Re: Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #1685 on: June 22, 2015, 05:14:59 pm »

I am sure the toxic soil is perfect for growing large fruitful farms necessary for large populated cities.

New Vegas for example survives purely on nonsense for nourishment (actually I have no idea what the people of New Vegas eat... there aren't any real functional farms... for the longest time I thought there was some sort of food generator made by Mr. House)
I think you missed it cause the NCR setup farms outside of New Vegas, you find them when walking through. They have a complete irrigation system and everything. Think there was a sub quest where you actually had to spike the irrigation to kill the crops.

How many acres? I doubt it is more then a few small plots. Not to mention that even then the soil quality is terrible as it is.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2015, 05:16:58 pm by Neonivek »
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Elfeater

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Re: Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #1686 on: June 22, 2015, 05:28:52 pm »

I am sure the toxic soil is perfect for growing large fruitful farms necessary for large populated cities.

New Vegas for example survives purely on nonsense for nourishment (actually I have no idea what the people of New Vegas eat... there aren't any real functional farms... for the longest time I thought there was some sort of food generator made by Mr. House)
I think you missed it cause the NCR setup farms outside of New Vegas, you find them when walking through. They have a complete irrigation system and everything. Think there was a sub quest where you actually had to spike the irrigation to kill the crops.

How many acres? I doubt it is more then a few small plots. Not to mention that even then the soil quality is terrible as it is.
There were farms right by New Vegas with irrigation, quite a bit of farmland north of New Vegas, assorted farms scattered in the south too.
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Flying Dice

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Re: Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #1687 on: June 22, 2015, 05:29:41 pm »

I am sure the toxic soil is perfect for growing large fruitful farms necessary for large populated cities.

New Vegas for example survives purely on nonsense for nourishment (actually I have no idea what the people of New Vegas eat... there aren't any real functional farms... for the longest time I thought there was some sort of food generator made by Mr. House)
I think you missed it cause the NCR setup farms outside of New Vegas, you find them when walking through. They have a complete irrigation system and everything. Think there was a sub quest where you actually had to spike the irrigation to kill the crops.

How many acres? I doubt it is more then a few small plots. Not to mention that even then the soil quality is terrible as it is.

I'd say about the same total walkable space as the interior of Westside, if I had to guesstimate. And keep in mind that the overworld is pretty space-compressed, given relative distances between towns. In real life Primm is something like 30 miles from Las Vegas, but in the game you can walk that trip in 5-15 minutes. That farm system, scaled up to 1:1, would probably be several square miles of farmland at the very least.
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Rakonas

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Re: Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #1688 on: June 22, 2015, 05:42:03 pm »

In Vegas you see merchants selling food and bar owners distilling alcohol from grain. The agriculture is clearly large scale but local growing requires water. There's also the suggestion of food importing because caravans.
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Fniff

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Re: Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #1689 on: June 22, 2015, 06:27:24 pm »

New Vegas does have a convenient lake with pretty clean water, if I remember correctly. The water in the Capital wasteland is so radioactive you need a whole purification system just to make it drinkable.
I'm surprised D.C isn't filled with more ghouls if radiation is so common. The average lifespan under those conditions and all the monsters would make a mayfly look like a sea turtle by comparsion.

Rakonas

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Re: Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #1690 on: June 22, 2015, 06:57:06 pm »

Ignoring how it doesn't make any scientific sense that the water is that radioactive, how the hell is a purification center supposed to purify the water upstream? It's essentially at the very mouth of the Potomac so if water somehow flowed upwards it would be salt water anyway. I don't want to get into that sort of 'unrealistic' argument though.

I just think that a major city without any work or production is at its core bad storytelling/world building. DC exists entirely for the player instead of having any semblance of things working out on their own.
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Arbinire

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Re: Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #1691 on: June 22, 2015, 10:20:08 pm »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strontium-90

I'm sorry, shit would definitely not be irradiated that long. 

Edit: Also as to soil quality, one of the key things The Followers yaw on about is teaching the locals things like irrigation, crop rotation, and proper fertilization.  Obsidian put a LOT of thought into how the people in their wastes would live, survive, and even thrive.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2015, 10:23:09 pm by corrosivechains »
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ZebioLizard2

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Re: Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #1692 on: June 22, 2015, 11:06:36 pm »

To be fair it's not just the Radiation, it's the fact that the radiation tends to be infused with FEV as well, typical radiation does not tend to turn people into Ghouls.
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Rolan7

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Re: Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #1693 on: June 22, 2015, 11:35:07 pm »

Also radiation is very different in this setting than in reality.  It's one reason everything is nuclear-powered.  Heck, I don't think ghouls are a result of FEV...  Just magic radiation doing weird nonsense.  A lot of them were turned when the bombs dropped, long before the FEV started spreading.  AFAIK.
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This one didn't want to be who they was. On the Surface – it was a dull, unconsidered sadness. But everything changed. Which implied everything could change.

Krevsin

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Re: Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #1694 on: June 23, 2015, 12:13:47 am »

If the soil is toxic, you don't get farmland, you don't get cattle, you don't even get wildlife. It all dies off.

Some crops are quite water intensive, but unless the rain is radioactive (which means death for everything even with magiradiation due to prolonged exposure, but even then plants would outlast humans), the only way for the DC area to be entirely devoid of crops is if the rain levels are low enough for it to turn into what amounts to a steppe. And even then you can have greenhouses and water collection tanks. Megaton seems to do perfectly well with their water pump.

And even in an arid environment, you can have cattle herds. There is grass enough throughout the DC area. But the only herds I've seen are outside Canterbury commons and nobody seems to care whether they live or die. There isn't even anyone there to guard them.
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