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[Darkmere]

The Master is twisted in such a way that he thinks he's doing the right thing, that just happens to result in lots of people dying. The Enclave think they're doing the right thing, but don't care at all about non-enclave.

The legion are rapist slavers for the point of being rapist slavers. It's not in service to a greater good, it's because they're evil. That's the difference.

[NullForceOmega]

The Master wants to convert every living human being into a sterile subservient super mutant and kill everything that opposes him.  The Enclave are literally developing an airborne version of FEV that will kill EVERY HUMAN ON EARTH who isn't enclave.  How are these less cartoonishly evil than the Legion?  If anything the Legion is by far the least insane of the Fallout badguys.

[Iceblaster]

Correction, The Master wanted to create a super human, however the way he did said thing and essentially everything involving the plan sterilized the subject.

The Master however, does not know this. Informing him of this causes him to become grief stricken, killing himself because of it.

Video proof

FAKE EDIT: I have nothing to say about the Enclave.

[NullForceOmega]

Intriguing, I don't believe I ever got those conversation options in any of my playthroughs of Fallout.  Doesn't change the fact that just like Ceaser and House he intended to permanently destroy the concept of self determination and replace it with his single view.  I have no tolerance for such stupidity.

[Neonivek]

The Master wants to convert every living human being into a sterile subservient super mutant and kill everything that opposes him.  The Enclave are literally developing an airborne version of FEV that will kill EVERY HUMAN ON EARTH who isn't enclave.  How are these less cartoonishly evil than the Legion?  If anything the Legion is by far the least insane of the Fallout badguys.

Here is sort of the difference.

The Master never pretended to be anything but a cartoonish villain, as well when it came to his motivations, how he came to be, and his methods he was incredibly interesting. As well he had a reason to be so cartoonishly evil all things considered having quite a bit more nuance then one might gleam on the surface.

The Legion pretend to be something other then cartoonishly evil while being cartoonishly evil... their motivation is to be cartoonishly evil, they came to be because some guy got a tumor that made him cartoonishly evil, and their methods are being cartoonishly evil. As well when you look close, they are cartoonishly evil.

That is the difference between the Legion and The Master.

But don't get me wrong I am harping on The Legion... but they are still LEAGUES better then the big bad of Fallout 2.

Since he is basically what the Legion would be like... if they weren't interesting in the slightest.

I mean lets give credit... the Legion are cartoonishly evil and yes their villainy hurts what the game was going for when it came to them (Honest Hearts originally intended to be part of the game I FULLY BELIEVE!)... But as long as they don't suffer the sin of being boring I'll be fine. Mind you they often feel far more effective then they should be...

They should be a legion, but even a few of them can be quite a hassle... Why do people bother with these... gun things?

[NullForceOmega]

To me, personally, being Roman is the most hideously boring thing I can imagine.  So I would brutally and mercilessly kill them even if they had depth.  That is a matter of personal taste however.  Without a doubt the Enclave is just there to be generic evil, and there really is nothing redeeming about them at all.  But I don't have any empathy for the Master either, his worldview is incompatible with mine, so I have to remove him from play.

I realize that I'm probably just sounding like a fanboy here, but the Fallout series is probably the best gaming experience I've ever had, and my personal viewpoint of the factions is pretty much set in stone at this point.

[Neonivek]

Well I don't think you are meant to agree with the Master.

He IS insane after all.

[Rakonas]

Intriguing, I don't believe I ever got those conversation options in any of my playthroughs of Fallout.  Doesn't change the fact that just like Ceaser and House he intended to permanently destroy the concept of self determination and replace it with his single view.  I have no tolerance for such stupidity.

He really doesn't seek that, though. He's just jumpstarting evolution, ensuring the survival of the superhumans. He's under the impression that once he's succeeded things will be much better with better evolved humans able to rebuild the world. So things can return to normal but with humans better equipped to deal with the new world they've created. When he realizes how flawed his vision is he's distraught.

[NullForceOmega]

He is still objectively wrong, and therefore must die.  In the conversation you have with him before you fight (or evidently convince him to self destruct, learn something new every day) he consistently alludes to forcing a singular view on his master race so as to prevent warfare and strife.  It is this viewpoint that is the entire problem, conflict is the motivating force for all development, and all unity brings is stagnation.

[Neonivek]

He is still objectively wrong, and therefore must die.  In the conversation you have with him before you fight (or evidently convince him to self destruct, learn something new every day) he consistently alludes to forcing a singular view on his master race so as to prevent warfare and strife.  It is this viewpoint that is the entire problem, conflict is the motivating force for all development, and all unity brings is stagnation.

Well stagnation in bliss is superior to evolution in hell.

[NullForceOmega]

Evolution in Hell would create the stronger being tho'.  And at least I'd still have the ability to choose, so I say heaven is a waste of time.

[Neonivek]

Evolution in Hell would create the stronger being tho'.  And at least I'd still have the ability to choose, so I say heaven is a waste of time.

Stronger being for whose sake?

[NullForceOmega]

I'm not taking that bait, philosophy is a waste of time, and I'm not interested in arguing the finer points of 'meaning'.

[mainiac]

I have to wonder if the people who think the Legion is cartoonishly evil have ever read history.

The Mongolians deliberately committed genocide in order to alter trade routes to facilitate more easy taxation.  They rounded up refugees like cattle and then herded them towards cities in a human stampede so that the pile of corpses would inconvenience their enemies or even to use as a goddamn ramp.  And there were probably people who were a lot worse then them but just weren't documented as well.

The Legion if anything are a little less bad then I would expect.  They still want there to be a world for them to rule over once they are done conquering it.  Look at the circumstances that lead to their rise.

[TempAcc]

The master is completely understandable if you see things from his point of view, however. Imagine that most of the world has been laid to waist by a nuclear holocaust caused by worldwide conflict, that renders the world incredibly hospitable to ordinary human life, and that you witnessed and managed to survive it after falling into a vat of phlebotium and becoming something far different from a human and noticing that everyone who is subjected to the same thing become beings that, despite flawed, are far more capable of surviving then a normal human, and some of them even retain their intelligence. With some good deal of research, you might be able to perfect the process and produce a whole new human race that can possibly become superior to humans altogheder.

Really, if I was in the master's shoes, its probably what I would attempt to do, altough I would be far less agressive and far more secretive about it untill I actualy succeeded. The only reason he didn't succeed is because the master was, quite literally, insane.

The legion's behavior also matches quite a few tribes and kingdoms of old. Its all a matter of perspective. You cant apply real, modern world ethics and morals to such things, simply because they exist in a completely different universe of ethics and morals.

You must never forget that we had far worse things in ancient history then fallout:NV's legion. The legion is basically the roman empire without the cultural and ethical achievements that actual rome had as its base, and rome was still pretty ruthless.