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[Mephansteras]

The Whiteboard
Ethereal.Frog : Nuke9.13, forsaken1111, Jim Groovester, Solifuge
forsaken1111 : webadict
Jim Groovester : Toaster
Org : JanusTwoFace
Ottofar : ToonyMan
Solifuge : Ethereal.Frog, Jokerman-EXE, Mr. Person, Ottofar
Toaster : Leafsnail
webadict : Org


Day 1 Ends ~5pm Pacific Friday

[Jokerman-EXE]

Unvote, Mr.Person is keeping the pressure of Solifuge long enough for me to say:

Groovestar, you're throwing out accusations - no, not even accusations. You're just calling everyone scum for the most minor details. Soli forgets someone had an excuse, you pound him for it. Toony pointed out a player most of us don't know, you pound him for it. Ottofar asks a question, DAY ONE, and you pound him for it (though the bluntness of that one made me chuckle).

Why are you so frantic on accusing everyone? Do you have other suspicions?

[Jim Groovester]

It's called scumhunting, Jokerman-EXE, and what you see me doing is the way I do it.

I'd rather accuse somebody of being scum for something minor in the hopes that I get lucky and they reveal more than they should have, instead of politely asking somebody something so they have a chance to answer calmly.

If you want a reason for why I developed this attitude, I'll give you one example. In my first Paranormal game, I discovered one of Pandarsenic's scum tells. I politely approached him about it, and he explained it off. I should have pounced on him for it, because he was scum in that game, and I was right about him being scum.

Aggression's the name of the game, Jokerman-EXE, and I have enough of it to go around for everybody.

[Jim Groovester]

Also, GroovSTER. NOT GrooveSTAR.

[Jokerman-EXE]

There's a difference between aggression and blind shotgunning.

I understand the need to pounce and push and be the most you can be, etc., but you seem to have gone beyond that into the ostentatious. You're literally calling people scum for either nothing (or what could be nothing) as with Soli, and with Ottofar, for doing exactly what you're doing. Maybe to a lesser degree, but if that's grounds for attacking someone, then you should be attacking every single person other than yourself.

You're trying to throw as much dust in the air as possible. You're scum.

[Jokerman-EXE]

Also, GroovSTER. NOT GrooveSTAR.

Oh, I know. I just call you that for fun.

I'll stop if you want though.

[Solifuge]

JanusTwoFace is at an AI conference in Florida or something.

Going after lurkers is nice and all, but you seem to have forgotten that JTF has an excuse. So, Solifuge, why are you going after lurkers when you could be scumhunting and why are you going after lurkers who have stated their reasons for sporadic posting?

I didn't recall that he was out-of-town, and going through the list of players, he was the only one whom we hadn't been hearing from. Just trying to get him into the game, and am not "going after him".

Solifuge, there's this glaringly obvious flaw in your plan: If you don't be off-kilter at all, then you won't get lynched at all. So instead of telling lies to all the new players, why don't we all agree that the best plan for a townie to follow is to find and vote for scum. No "looking slightly off-kilter", no bullshit, just question people and vote the scum.

I think you're just trying to explain away future scuminess by saying "Oh, but that was my plan!" which is, of course, stupid. So don't even try.

Before you respond with "Oh, but my plan worked!" there's another flaw in your plan. If you do something scummy, YOU GET TOWNIES VOTING YOU! OH HO HO, YOUR PLAN BACKFIRED!

If you're going to try this shit, don't even bother signing up.

Mr. Person is the angriest Vulpix ever.

Accusing me of lying is something I don't follow you on... you appear to be trying really hard to twist what I've openly shared into the most negative-sounding thing you can. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and figure you're just trying to convince yourself of your own words, rather than trying to frame me. Even so, your argument is like trying to get someone lynched for participating in the Random Vote ritual. The baiting tactic I used is an opener, meant to extract reactions out of players, and done in a way that isn't as obvious and thus has a better chance of getting a more telling response out of people. It's different than the Random Vote, but no less useful, and done at a point in the game where, don't forget, we have NOTHING to go on but how people react.

For instance you are showing signs of aggressive hunting, which is usually a good tell by its own merits. However, in doing it you're joining others in a popular opinion, and pressing it aggressively, which is a very safe thing to do. It has the subconscious benefit of making the others who have voted before you feel like you're "with" them, on the same team, with the same goals. It's vehement buddying, by alignment of your overt goal with theirs.

[Jokerman-EXE]

Soli, are you then accusing him of bandwagoning/buddying? While well-thought out, that whole piece seemed incredibly passive to me, especially when you consider that Mr.P is voting you.

[Solifuge]

My vote is sticking where it is, since it's not yet been rebuffed.

I don't think I have a bandwagon on me, and I don't believe Mr.Person is most likely scum right now. I'm accusing him of making safe moves, but giving the veneer of aggression, which is a very self-preservationist move. It's not a scum tell, but its selfish.

[ToonyMan]

Man, I missed out on Kamina quote night.
Just for everyone around here, NUKE is a very dangerous mafia player so just be all 'round aggressive to everyone or else you're going nowhere.

A warning? From ToonyMan? That seems unlike you, ToonyMan.

The rest of the post I took this quote from is also uncharacteristic of ToonyMan (ToonyMan never uses underlines). So why are you trying to change the way you play your game, ToonyMan?

I once deceased wise man said variety is the way of life.

Webadict,
Once is OK, but I'm seconding the why is Forsaken scum bit.  You went off Ottofar really really fast, why is this?

Jokerman and Jim,
I agree with Jim, I full heartily agree with constant pressure and attacks, it makes scum nervous and slip up their play.  Also, stop pissing people off by spelling their name wrong on purpose I hate having my name misspelled as well.

[Jim Groovester]

...into the ostentatious.

That word doesn't mean what you think it means.

There's a difference between aggression and blind shotgunning.

I don't criticize your scumhunting methodology, so don't criticize mine.

Alright, let's go on a case by case basis of proving that what I'm doing is not, in fact, scummy behavior, but rather, pro-town aggressive behavior that everybody seems to recognize except for you.

Solifuge

Scum like going after lurkers because they are safe targets of suspicion and so that they appear helpful going after them. JTF stated before he was going to be busy with a conference, so he's partially exempt from participation. However, Solifuge went after him anyway. This made me suspicious. I made an accusation (or rather an insinuation) to see Solifuge's response.

ToonyMan

The post I quoted didn't look like ToonyMan's typical behavior. Things that look out of place are often enough scum tells, so I asked him about it.

Ottofar

I accused Toaster of being scum for doing the exact same thing: asking other people who they found suspicious. It's not a terrible thing to do, so long as the person asking has clearly defined suspicions, but if it's the other way around then it is suspicious.

As you can see (or perhaps not), this is not overly-aggressive behavior, and I find the notion that I am scum for being too aggressive absolutely ridiculous.

I'll stop if you want though.

Please do.

Jokerman and Jim,
I agree with Jim, I full heartily agree with constant pressure and attacks, it makes scum nervous and slip up their play.  Also, stop pissing people off by spelling their name wrong on purpose I hate having my name misspelled as well.

Thanks, ToonyMan! You're the best bro ever!

I once deceased wise man said variety is the way of life.

This new ToonyMan has much greater clarity, so I like the change. But I'll still watch you (perhaps not as closely as other people) just in case.

I didn't recall that he was out-of-town, and going through the list of players, he was the only one whom we hadn't been hearing from. Just trying to get him into the game, and am not "going after him".

Ah, but you FOSed him. If you wanted to get him back in the game, that was an unnecessary move. You said you smelled a lurker something bad, which appears more to be an attempt at putting suspicion onto JTF, not getting him back into the game.

[Mr.Person]

@Solifuge: I changed it from a crying elephant in make-up so I'll look slightly more masculine. Rrrrrrr!

So you're saying that your opening gambit (gambits are for scum, not town, btw) is to intentionally act a little scummy to see who jumps on you? Again, you've never addressed the problems with this. Specifically, you gather the ire of townies who caught your scuminess. So even if you do manage to catch a scum somehow, you're very likely to have gained the votes of townies. And then you get lynched, since many players never let go of their first lynch target. Now tell me, how is getting townies and maybe a scum or two to lynch you useful at all? I don't see how that's useful, but I do see being able to explain that your scummy actions as "intentional" or "traps to catch scum" as very useful... if you're scum.

So since I can't see any logical reason for you to do what you're doing as town, you must be scum. And if you are town, learn to not do retarded things like intentionally act scummy. This discussion is over. Intentionally acting scummy is retarded. Period. Trying to argue it is like saying that it's a good idea to play Football really poorly in practice and warm-ups so when the actual game starts, you can get a surprise goal/touchdown on the opposing team. Significant problems relating both to how effective the strategy is at harming your opponents and how much it hurts the rest of your team.

@ToonyMan: How do you misspell your name? TonyMan? TownyMan?

[ToonyMan]

They spell it Tooneyman.  I have to admit I never see it misspelled anymore, but I bet someone will spell it wrong on purpose now.
That reminds me,
@Meph: Sometimes you send PMs to the wrong ToonyMan, someone has an account called Tooneyman and they get those sometimes, I would never know why though, pfft.

[webadict]

Jim Groovester is also scum.

Man, I missed out on Kamina quote night.
Just for everyone around here, NUKE is a very dangerous mafia player so just be all 'round aggressive to everyone or else you're going nowhere.

A warning? From ToonyMan? That seems unlike you, ToonyMan.

The rest of the post I took this quote from is also uncharacteristic of ToonyMan (ToonyMan never uses underlines). So why are you trying to change the way you play your game, ToonyMan?

I once deceased wise man said variety is the way of life.

Webadict,
Once is OK, but I'm seconding the why is Forsaken scum bit.  You went off Ottofar really really fast, why is this?

Jokerman and Jim,
I agree with Jim, I full heartily agree with constant pressure and attacks, it makes scum nervous and slip up their play.  Also, stop pissing people off by spelling their name wrong on purpose I hate having my name misspelled as well.

Oh, I'm just making notes right now. Never you mind what I'm secretly writing about you behind your backs.

[Jokerman-EXE]

Unvote, you've satisfied the questions asked.

I wasn't saying that too much attacking is scum behavior, rather that your attacks didn't make much sense to me and it seemed like you were being (it seemed to me) overly town to cover your scumminess. Your explanation has countered that belief, thank you.