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[Ottofar]

Okay, Solifuge it is.
Or did I fail to understand your message?

[Leafsnail]

Waiiit... no, I could be wrong.

# Deadman bomb: If the Alien is lynched, he explodes killing the last person to vote for him and a random person near him. A day-kill that is not a lynch will result in two random players being killed. If he is night-killed, the bomb kills his attacker (counts as an NK). Small tech slot.

How do you define a "Person near him", Meph?

[Solifuge]

I did not use a Plasma Bomb, that was a standard nightkill. If it had been a Plasma Bomb, It'd have affected all of the players targetting one another, instead of just Criptfiend.

Mephansteras, though  it was quite cool, I think the way the flavor from Night 1 was worded makes it unecessarily misleading, especially since you referred to a Grenade, rather than a laser in regards to my kill. Provided it doesn't interfere with the spirit of the game, or what players are supposed to know, would you be willing to provide precisely the information you intended to convey to town, in as Vanilla a way as possible?

Also, the DMB targets the Hammering player, but also a Random player. Not the last 2.

Deadman bomb: If the Alien is lynched, he explodes killing the last person to vote for him and a random person near him. A day-kill that is not a lynch will result in two random players being killed. If he is night-killed, the bomb kills his attacker (counts as an NK). Small tech slot.

FAKE-EDIT Ninja'd.

[Mephansteras]

Waiiit... no, I could be wrong.

# Deadman bomb: If the Alien is lynched, he explodes killing the last person to vote for him and a random person near him. A day-kill that is not a lynch will result in two random players being killed. If he is night-killed, the bomb kills his attacker (counts as an NK). Small tech slot.

How do you define a "Person near him", Meph?

The deadman bomb kills the last person to vote for the Alien (the one pulling the trigger, flavor-wise) and a random other person. Basically 'nearby' just means alive and not captured by an Alien Scientist or otherwise out of commission for the day.

@Solifuge: A Plasma Bomb would leave a giant crater, and not leave a body.

[JanusTwoface]

unvote

Out of curiosity, I've been running the numbers based on the role matrix.  I've always wanted to see how this would work out.  Right now, with all of the dead players plus assuming Solifuge is actually the Exterminator, we are at +5.

I'm not actually sure what the margin of error on Mephansteras' script is, but even if the scumteam were Jokerman-EXE (-11 to adjust from town to scum) and Pandarsenic/Leafsnail (-8 to adjust from town to scum) the score is still +3 in the town's favor.

So, we may be looking at this the wrong way.  It's entirely possible that Jokerman (for example) is a Dopp Vigilante. Let alone everyone else.

Here's my table:

Name	Role	Town	Scum
Pandarsenic	Detective+Kook	2	-6
ToonyMan	Intelligence Scientist		-2
Org	Vanilla	0
Mr.Person	Guardian	4
Leafsanil	Agent	4	-4
JanusTwoface	Reporter	3	-3
Criptfeind	War Vetern	1
forsaken1111	Psychic Warden	2
Jokerman-EXE	Vigilante	3	-8
webadict	Psychic Warden	2	-4
LoneWolf I	Intelligence Scientist	1	-2
Solifuge	Exterminator
Jim Groovester	Detective	3
Ottofar	Vengeful Guard	2	-3
Toaster	Enchanter	2
NUKE9.13	Observant Guard + Mind Shield		-5

Psuedo-edit: *distances self physically from Ottofar*

[Leafsnail]

Well, ToonyMan must've had a natural mindshield, since he flipped with an advanced one... I think?

Other than that... huh.  How rigid is the role matrix?

And the random kill is problematic, but if a dopp hammers Solifuge (or if he becomes obv by refusing to do so) we can probably deal with it.

[JanusTwoface]

That's true and actually bumps the overall score down by -3 for Dopp Mind Shield.  Which means that if Jokerman and Pandarsenic/Leafsnail were scum the score would be perfectly balanced and makes some of the other's more reasonable.

Just for reference, I ran the numbers last round as well and it was +3 IIRC.  So it's entirely possible to be a bit off, it's just interesting that it's so far off.

[Solifuge]

Guess what Leafsnail. Town win conditions are mutually exclusive with Dopples as well as they are with SK. Each are separate teams. Basically, you're making a choice between strengthening and unifying the Dopplegangers, or dividing and weakening both scum factions, while maintaining your own strength.

Here's a rough outline of the way things could go, depending on how everyone acts, with simplified percentage chances for the liklihood of each outcome. Some are accurate to the digit, and others are approximations. It's obvious to see why I want to kill a Dopple, as that is the only result that gives room for a small percentage chance of my victory, but it also gives the best set of possible outcomes, at the highest probability, for Town to win:

1) If Town kills the Exterminator, and I have a DMB:
2 Dopplegangers and 5 Town will be left. 2 of these will be killed by the DMB; the one to hammer me, and 1 random player. A scum player will not agree to hammer me, therefor you are guaranteed to kill 1 Townie. You have With remaining players, you have a 2/3 chance of killing another Townie.
Possible End-of-Day Results:
66% Chance (Dopples Win):
Dopplegangers win instantly. Good jorb.
33% Chance (Bad Result):
1 Doppleganger, and 4 Town remainin. That night, Dopple kills 1 Townie. If Vigilanti kills a Townie, you've got LYLO with 2 Town, 1 Dopple.

2) If Town kills the Exterminator, and I'm bluffing about the bomb:
2 Dopplegangers and 5 Town will be left. Dopples kill 1 town. Vig kills either Town or Dopple.
Possible End-of-Day Results:
33% Chance (Bad Result):
Dopples kill Town/Vig. Vig accidentally kills Town. Day starts with 2 Dopples and 3 Town. Town has no chance to survive make your time.
33% Chance (Good Result):
Dopples kill Town/Vig. Vig kills Dopple. Day starts with 1 Dopple and 4 Town. A reasonable shot at victory.
16.5% Chance (Poor Result):
Dopple kill is blocked. Vig accidentally kills Town. Day begins with 2 Dopps, and 4 Town. So-so outlook.
16.5% Chance (Good Result):
Dopple kill is blocked. Vig kills Dopple. Day begins with 1 Dopp, and 5 Town. Very good outlook.

3) If Town lynches a Doppleganger:
1 Dopplegangers, 1 Exterminator, and 5 Town will be left. Doppleganger can't kill the Exterminator without dying, and attacks 1 Town. Exterminator kills either Town or Doppleganger. Town may also Vigkill either Doppleganger or Exterminator.
Possible End-of-Day Results:
33% Chance (Town Wins):
Vig and Exterminator both target Doppleganger. Results: 1 Exterminator, 4 Town left. Town lynches Exterminator. Town Wins, DMB notwithstanding.
33% Chance (Town Wins):
Vig. kills Extie, Extie kills Dopple. Town Wins.
33% Chance (Mediocre Result):
Vig accidentally kills Town, Extie kills Town/Vig, Dopple kills Town/Vig. 1 Dopple, 1 Exterminator, and 2 Town remain. Town wins or loses depending on remaining Roles and choices made.

4) If Town accidently lynches Town:
2 Dopplegangers, 1 Exterminator, and 4 Town will be left. Doppleganger will have to kill Exterminator, or they cannot win. Exterminator will kill Dopple or Town. Vig will kill Dopple or Town.
Possible End-of-Day Results:
25% Chance (Dopples Win):
Vig hits Town. Extie kills Town. Dopple kills Extie. Day starts with 2 Town and 2 Dopples. Dopples win.
25% Chance (Town Wins):
Vig hits Dopple. Extie hits Dopple. Dopple kills Extie. Scum are dead, Town Wins.
50% Chance (Good Result):
Vig hits Dopple, Extie hits Town, OR Exite hits Dopple, Vig hits town. Dopple kills Extie. Day starts with 1 Dopple and 4 Town.

[webadict]

Solifuge: anything you post is now spam. Please shut up.

Basically, if you're alive, you will kill a Townie. Because then we can't lynch you AT ALL. So shut up and we'll lynch you. Ottofar will hammer. As long as Jokerman and/or I am alive, there's no way to lose. Also, Janus, Jokerman can only be scum with Leafsnail. What are the chances of that?

[webadict]

Also, lol @ Solifuge. You used your shield killing Criptfeind. Well, killing him further. If you had a DMB, you also wouldn't be trying to force a different plan.

[JanusTwoface]

@Solifuge, thank you for the very colorful and nicely formatted post.  It was very enjoyable. 

I will argue that the first 33% isn't actually bad though.  With 2 town and 1 scum, hopefully we'll be able to tell who the scum actually are.  In the next red case where there's 3 town to 2 scum, it's still possible for a win because the town can still outvote the dopps.  It's not as good of a situation, but still winnable.  It's only the 66% and final 25% that are actually guaranteed wins.

It's actually funny how you have town lynching town as the best looking case...

@Webadict, a Jokerman/Leafsnail scum team is entirely possible.  So far as game balance, it's one of the two possibilities that would end up with a perfect balance between the scum and town roles as I've mentioned.  And the other possibility doesn't actually work, looking back (because than Leafsnail wouldn't have gotten a town result).

[Solifuge]

Dear Mr. Wubbadict.

If I knew you in person, your superiority complex would probably drive me to violence. Instead, please enjoy sucking the enclosed lemon. Do everyone a favor, and keep your ego in your pants. No one wants to see that.

Quite seriously though, PLEASE just get over yourself already. The universe neither revolves around you, nor does everyone bow to your every beck and call. People will choose whether they want to value what you say, but this little dellusion that you've created that you're some sort of authority on anything continues to get dangerously close to pissing me off.

[JanusTwoface]

While I don't disagree with you in general, the problem is he's right now that I've actually looked back at the Alien tech.  You're lying.  You can't have two tech items left, because you did survive Criptfeind.

Is trigger happy and will kill anyone visiting them at night, although they still die if the night target was deadly. Can choose to turn off this ability for a night (leaving themselves vulnerable)

The War Vet should have killed you, but it didn't.  Only the Shield or Plasma Bomb would bypass that and we know that you didn't use the Bomb via your claim and the mod.  Care to try to come up with another explication?

[Solifuge]

I have no shield. The reason I didn't die was because of action priority. Meph, might I ask public clarification on how Kill Priority works, given the following scenarios?

a) If a Doppleganger and Exterminator both target a Paranoid War Vet with nightkill actions, how would that resolve?

b) If a Doppleganger/Observant Guard Protected a Paranoid Veteran, and an Exterminator then attacked the Paranoid Veteran in the same night, how would that resolve?

[webadict]

Maybe he's still packing that Plasma Bomb and really wants to use it.

I have no shield. The reason I didn't die was because of action priority. Meph, might I ask public clarification on how Kill Priority works, given the following scenarios?

a) If a Doppleganger and Exterminator both target a Paranoid War Vet with nightkill actions, how would that resolve?

b) If a Doppleganger/Observant Guard Protected a Paranoid Veteran, and an Exterminator then attacked the Paranoid Veteran in the same night, how would that resolve?

A. No kill priority anymore. Both kills cause the deaths of themselves.

B. You attacked criptfeind, not Nuke. You can tell from criptfeind being charred.

Shut your mouth. Suck a lemon.